Chinese virologist Tong Yigang has denied the rhetoric claiming the virus that caused the COVID-19 pandemic could have been leaked from a lab. He says it's an easy story to tell by people who are not experts in virology. CGTN interviews Tong Yigang, the co-leader of the WHO-China joint team's animals and environment group and professor at Beijing University of Chemical Technology, they discussed some of the most popular hypotheses about COVID-19's origins.
In the first phase joint study by the WHO and China, you were the co-leader of the Animals and Environment group. The study concluded that a lab leak is “extremely unlikely”. But some are still pushing to reinvestigate the Wuhan lab. What would you say to that?
在中国世卫组织联合溯源第一阶段任务中，您是动物环境组的中方组长，你们的小组已经得出实验室泄漏“极不可能”的结论。但是一些人仍然推动继续针对武汉的实验室进行调查。您怎么看？ Tong Yigang: When the WHO experts were in China, we spent about a month discussing the origins of the virus. Through much analysis, we carefully studied evidence from all aspects. We also discussed every detail, and assessed the possibility of every situation through positive and negative evidence. And both the WHO and Chinese experts agreed unanimously, that a lab leak is extremely unlikely. A further conclusion was also made, that without new clues and evidence related to labs, virus origin-tracing missions would no longer be focused on this area. The experts were invited from various countries, with deep academic foundations and high reputations, and selected by the WHO itself. Someone in WHO senior leadership has raised doubts about the conclusion by these experts. I don't really understand this. I don’t know why it happened. 在世卫专家到中国来的那一段时间，我们花了大约一个月的时间去讨论病毒的源头的问题。经过了很多的研判，对于各方面的证据我们都进行了仔细的研究，也花了很多的时间对每一个细节进行了讨论，我们对每一种可能出现的情况都从正和反两个方面提出一些证据，来去判断它的可能性。最终双方的专家一致认为，关于实验室泄漏的这个问题是极不可能，而且是得出了一个进一步的结论就是说，在没有新的证据提示和实验室有关的情况下，不再进一步研究和调查实验室泄漏的问题。世卫专家也是从世界各国邀请来的，在这个领域里头具有深厚的学术基础和很高的威望的专家，也是世卫组织自己挑选出来的专家，这么多的专家达成了一致的结论，最后世卫组织个别高层又对这个结论提出了怀疑态度，质疑这个结论，我也是很不理解，不知道他们为什么会出现这种情况。 Some still believe the new coronavirus has originated from a lab leak. What's your response? 有些人还是认为“新型冠状病毒来源于实验室泄漏”， 您怎么看？ Tong Yigang: This shouldn’t be a question for us professionals engaged in studying the novel coronavirus. First, why do some people suspect the virus came from a lab leak? Because there have been many lab leak accidents. But previous lab leak accidents happened when the virus existed, when someone studied it. This virus that caused the COVID-19 pandemic was unknown. Nobody studied it. So it couldn’t have been leaked. After the outbreak, the Wuhan Institute of Virology tried to analyze the possible origin of the virus. They tested all personnel, and didn't find anyone infected. They also checked the lab records and didn't find any similar sequence of the new coronavirus SARS-CoV-2, except RaTG13. That virus was from bats, and it is still largely different from the novel coronavirus. It’s impossible to reconstruct this virus to SARS-CoV-2, and it can’t evolve into SARS-CoV-2. This (nature origin) has long been supported by the scientific community. They (WIV) also tested many environmental samples from the lab, and did not detect any similar sequence of the new coronavirus. All this evidence can prove very certainly, that the Wuhan Institute of Virology didn't have this virus, and didn’t leak such a virus. Why do so many people suspect a lab leak? Because it’s an easy story to tell, attractive to some people. When there’s no scientific evidence and people don’t know where it came from, people like to associate it with a lab leak. The Wuhan Institute of Virology is located in the city where the outbreak began, and someone was studying relevant viruses, so there are very attractive materials to make up a story. Even some journals published such articles, but the authors are not experts in virology. They even don’t know the evolution theory in molecular biology. In the scientific community, particularly in some top journals, experts in evolution, viruses, and molecular biology have denied the rhetoric that the virus was man-made or lab leaked. 其实我觉得这个问题对于我们从事新冠研究的专业人士来说，应该不是一个问题。首先说有人怀疑说实验室泄漏，为什么？因为历史上有很多的实验室泄漏这样的一些事故。但事实上以前发生泄漏都是有病毒存在的情况下，有人在研究的情况下发生的泄漏。那么这一次的引发疫情的新冠病毒它以前是没有人知道的，没人去研究它的，所以它就不可能发生泄漏。 在疫情发生之后，武汉病毒所为了进一步分析病毒可能的来源，他们对所有的人员进行了病毒的检测，都没有任何人发生过感染的迹象。实验室记录的检查也没有发现任何和新冠病毒有类似的病毒的序列的存在。除了RaTG13那样一个病毒是一个蝙蝠来源病毒，这个病毒和新冠病毒也是差得非常远，也不可能通过这个病毒改造成新冠病毒，也不可能是说由RaTG13进化成了这个新冠病毒。这是早就被科学界否定了，也是不可能发生的事情。他们在疫情之后还进行了大量的实验室环境检测，也没有检测到任何和新冠病毒有关的病毒的序列在环境中的存在。所以所有这些证据可以非常肯定的说，武汉的病毒所是根本就在此之前是不存在这样的病毒，也不可能有这样一个病毒从实验室泄漏。 为什么有很多人要怀疑实验室泄漏？因为这个是一个非常好讲的故事，在没有任何科学根据，不知道从哪里来的时候，人们就喜欢去联想去认为这个实验室发生泄漏。武汉病毒所又在疫情早期发生的地方，然后又有人在研究相关的一些病毒，这种材料编故事非常具有吸引力。甚至有一些期刊还发表类似的一些文章，其实这些人他并不是非常专业的搞病毒学研究的人，他们很多的基本的分子生物学进化的一些理论，都不掌握。在科学界，尤其是一些顶尖的杂志，一些顶尖的做进化的、做病毒、分子生物学的这样的一些专家早就在第一时间出来否定了病毒是人造或是泄漏的这样一些说法。
Is it possible to synthesize this virus in a laboratory? Tong Yigang: The biological synthesis is based on known pathogens and microbes. This coronavirus is a new one to humankind. Even the closest virus to it we recently found, RaTG13, has a difference of more than 1,000 loci. It’s impossible to artificially design these 1,000 loci.If anyone wants to say the virus is artificially designed, you can go get one. Call up a team of world-leading experts to design a similar virus! Any scientist, anyone who really studies synthetic biology or virology, knows if you want to design a virus that has 1,000 sites different from the old one, and guarantee it can survive, it’s extremely impossible.所有的目前的所谓的合成生物学的合成，它都是对于已知的病原体的合成、已知的微生物的合成。新冠病毒它是一个我们人类完全未知的一个病毒，即使是和我们最近发现的和它最接近的一个病毒，也就是RaTG13这个病毒，它的差异也是在1000多个位点的差异，这1000多个位点的差异，如果说是人工去设计它，这是不可能的。假如说有人说想说这个病毒是人为设计的，你可以去试一试，你找世界上最有水平的团队，你来再设计一个类似的病毒！任何一个真正的科学家，一个真正做合成生物学的或者做病毒学研究的人，都知道你要想合成这样一个新的病毒和原来的病毒有1000多个位点的不一样，而且要保证这个病毒能够存活，这个是极不可能的。A new study in the US says white-tail deer in multiple US states, tested positive for COVID-19 antibodies, does that mean they’ve been infected by the virus? 一个来自美国的新研究发现，在美国几个州采集的白尾鹿样品中检测到新冠病毒抗体，其中有一个样本是2019年采集的。这说明他们感染过新冠病毒吗？Tong Yigang: The report said that they used different methods and got the same conclusion. The animals did have COVID-19 antibodies, meaning they had been infected by COVID-19. There’s no doubt about that. This report has several meanings. First, it found another animal susceptible to COVID that we were not aware of. Second, the epidemic was first found in China. We did lots of work, and tested animals in different regions, different species in the country. But we didn’t find a sequence of the virus in wild animals, even a virus very close to it. But the virus found in these white-tailed deer was the SARS-CoV-2. So we wonder whether these deer carried the virus earlier.这个报道中也说了，他们采用的方法用了不同的方法进行了验证，不同的方法得到的，结果是完全一致的。动物确实存在有新冠病毒的特异性的抗体，就说明这些动物肯定是发生过新冠病毒的感染，是没有什么疑问的。关于这篇报道它有几个方面的意义，第一个意义就是说他发现了一种新的重要的易感动物，我们以前是不知道的。另外一种意义就是，我们在中国疫情最早被发现，我们能做了大量的工作，把国内的不同的地区，不同的物种的动物都做了大量的采样进行了检测，但是仍然没有找到蛛丝马迹，没有找到任何的线索，就是说在野生的动物身上去找到这样的一个病毒的序列的存在，甚至一个跟他很接近的病毒都没有找到。但是在美国的这些白尾鹿的身上找到的病毒就是新冠病毒，所以另外一个意义就是让我们感到怀疑是否白尾鹿早先就携带了这样的病毒。