艺术、教育与UCCA：对话田霏宇｜An Interview with Philip Tinari

Original CAFA ART INFO 中央美院艺讯网

Interview with Philip Tinari

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在成为UCCA尤伦斯当代艺术中心馆长之前，田霏宇先生曾有过丰富的学术媒体从业背景，职位包括：创办中国首个国际发行的双语当代艺术杂志《艺术界LEAP》并担任编辑总监、《ArtForum》杂志特约编辑并曾担任ArtForum中文网的创始主编、中央美术学院人文学院客座教授、以及苏富比拍卖中国当代艺术部学术顾问等等。从专业媒体人向艺术机构管理人的跨越，田霏宇先生亲历见证了民营艺术机构在中国“涅槃重生”的十年，因而也跻身于中国当代艺术领域最具影响力的评论家、策展人和艺术史学家之列。2020年中国春节前后突然爆发的新型冠状病毒肺炎影响已经整整持续了三个月，许多艺术机构陆续以线上展览形式进行回应和行动，UCCA沙丘美术馆最新展览“沉睡者的抵抗”日前也采取了线上开幕的形式与观众见面，该展览将持续到9月结束。围绕着UCCA最新的进展以及疫情所带来的影响和变化，艺讯网对田霏宇先生进行了专访。

Prior to becoming the Director and CEO of UCCA Center for Contemporary Art, Philip Tinari already possessed a wealth of experience in art media and academia, having held positions including: Editorial Director and Executive Publisher of LEAP, Founding Editor of ARTFORUM’s Chinese language website (he is currently a Contributing Editor at ARTFORUM magazine), Visiting Professor of the School of Humanities at CAFA, Academic Advisor for the Chinese Contemporary Art Department at Sotheby’s, and more. From his early role as a writer, to a director of an art institution, Tinari has witnessed the “rebirth” of private art institutions in China over the past decade, and thus became one of the most influential critics, curators, and art historians in the field of Chinese contemporary art. Since COVID-19 broke out after Chinese New Year in early 2020, it has had a large impact on art institutions, and UCCA is no exception. Many museums have responded by taking exhibitions and other activities online; UCCA Dune has just launched its latest exhibition “Resistance of the Sleepers” with an online opening a few days ago. The show will remain on view for in-person visitors until September. CAFA ART INFO spoke to Tinari in an exclusive interview to learn more about the latest developments at UCCA and the impact of the pandemic on the institution.

田霏宇先生

Portrait of Mr. Philip Tinari

受访人：田霏宇先生

Interviewee: Mr. Philip Tinari

采访人& 编辑：Sue Wang

Interviewer & Editor: Sue Wang

采访时间：2020年4月21日

Interview Date: April 21, 2020

艺讯网：作为北京UCCA馆长，您也曾有多年在艺术媒体从事评论与策划工作的经验；从2001年到中国，2011年成为UCCA馆长，再到目前这二十年历程中，您如何看待中国当代艺术的发展和变化？

CAFA ART INFO: As the Director of UCCA in Beijing, you have many years’ experience with critical writing and curatorial planning. From 2001, when you visited China for the first time, through to 2011 when you joined UCCA as Director, till now, you have spent almost twenty years in China. What do you think of the developments and changes that have occurred within Chinese contemporary art?

田霏宇：恰好我参与工作的这二十年，其实本身也是中国当代艺术整个系统建设和发展的过程。比如说在80年代，当时主要是相对内部的学术交流与官方体系；90年代是初步建立了市场体系，从展览到收藏家，以及艺术家群体都受到很多来自海外的影响；2000年后，可以说中国当代艺术经历了一个合法化的进程，比如说当代艺术走进了像央美这样的艺术院校的教学理念当中，再进一步的表现就是老百姓开始接受当代艺术这个概念，像798或者是M50等艺术区的出现，大量机构和画廊的诞生以及专业媒体的发声，当时最大的一个趋势可能就是整个体系在逐渐地完善。我一直是很希望中国当代艺术在国际上拥有自身的一个地位和态度，以及发言权，但问题是目前国内的市场和领域都这么大，艺术家完全可以满足于国内的这些机会，反而会变成一段比较微妙的时间。近五年最大的变化是大众对艺术的接受能力在不断地提高，也出现了广泛的感兴趣的观众群体，所以现在可以做一些比较有影响力的大型展览。

Philip Tinari: The work I’ve participated in over these two decades is in fact part of the process through which Chinese contemporary art was constructed and developed. For example in the 1980s, art in China was mainly about academic exchange and the official system, with things mostly kept within this framework; in the 1990s, the first steps were taken towards the establishment of a market system, and from exhibitions to collectors and groups of artists, everything and everyone absorbed a great deal of international influences; after 2000, it can be said that contemporary Chinese art underwent a process of legitimization. For example contemporary art has been incorporated into the teaching philosophies of the Central Academy of Fine Arts and other art schools. A further manifestation of this is that people in general began to be more accepting of and familiar with the concept of contemporary art, as seen through the emergence of 798, M50, and other art districts, the birth of a large number of institutions and galleries, and the voice of a dedicated art press. So one of the biggest trends of that time might be that the entire system was gradually improving. I have always hoped that contemporary Chinese art can stand on the world stage with its own place, unique approach, and voice. But the issue is that currently, the field and market within China are so large that artists might be fully satisfied with domestic opportunities. This could lead to a period where developments are subtler. The biggest change over the past five years is that the ability of the public to accept art has been continuously growing. There is a bigger audience with a wide range of interests, so right now we have the chance to present large-scale exhibitions with the potential to make a greater impact.

UCCA尤伦斯当代艺术中心外景

Outside View of UCCA

2000年在美国北卡罗莱纳州杜克大学与艺术家徐冰讨论《烟草计划：达勒姆》展览实施

Working with Xu Bing on Tobacco Project, Duke University, 2000

2001年在杜克大学策划展览《亚洲制造》开幕式上

At the opening of the exhibition Made In Asia, Duke University, 2001

艺讯网：UCCA是目前北京也是全国最专业学术的展览机构之一，从2007年开馆到2020年，UCCA目前已经成为798艺术区的地标之一，也是品质展览的象征，这与您的努力也是分不开的。您觉得UCCA的发展目标和使命是什么？未来有怎样的发展计划？

CAFA ART INFO: UCCA is currently one of the most professional art institutions in Beijing, and the rest of China. From its opening in 2007 through to 2020, UCCA has become one of the landmarks of the 798 Art District and come to symbolize high-quality exhibitions, which could not have happened without your hard work. What do you think UCCA’s goal and mission are? What are UCCA’s plans for future development?

田霏宇: UCCA一直秉持艺术可以深入生活，并改善生活的理念，希望公众可以平等地参与欣赏、理解艺术。我们的发展目标是很明确的，就是希望在国内外做一个具有里程碑意义的全方位的艺术机构，呈现中国当代艺术里最迫切的趋势、人物和作品，同时有选择性地引进可能观众最有必要看到的海外的最新艺术实践，同时促进整个艺术生态进一步的发展。我们在北戴河、上海以及未来还会在其他的城市继续扩张自己的馆群，我相信这会带来更多新的机会，将以UCCA对艺术的理解和判断带动更多元化的人群。

Philip Tinari: UCCA has always upheld the core value that art can deepen and improve lives, and we hope that all people can participate in the appreciation and understanding of art on an equal footing. Our goal for development is quite clear, that is, we hope to be recognized in China and abroad as a game-changing, well-rounded art institution, by showcasing the most important currents, figures, and artworks in Chinese contemporary art while also selectively introducing audiences to the latest and most relevant in art practices from around the world. We hope to contribute to the further development of the art system as a whole. As our museum group expands to Beidaihe, Shanghai, and other cities in the future, I believe we will have many new opportunities to share UCCA’s understanding and vision of art with an ever more diverse public.

UCCA沙丘美术馆

UCCA Dune

艺讯网：2020年初突如其来的新冠状病毒肺炎疫情打乱了很多艺术机构和艺术从业者的计划，现在已经波及全球的疫情，让人们不得不慢下来……疫情发生时候您在哪里？您的生活和工作是否受到了影响？对您又有什么启示？

CAFA ART INFO: The sudden outbreak of COVID-19 that began in early 2020 has disrupted the schedule of many art institutions and individuals in the art industry. Now the pandemic has spread across the world and left people with no choice but to slow down their lives… Where were you when the epidemic started? How has your life and work been affected by it? Did it inspire you in some way?

田霏宇: 湖北武汉封城的时候，我其实正在达沃斯参加世界经济论坛。03年非典时，我在国内以实习记者的身份为《纽约时报》写相关报道，所以我有很深切的感受，比如国内发生这种情况会做出什么样的应对措施，但是很快就发现这次疫情的规模和力度可能比非典的影响还要大。我是2月11号回到北京，春节期间我花了三个星期在欧洲、沙特包括南非等好几个地方游走，路途是很周折的。虽然当时是比较严重的一段时间，但我还是认为早一点回来会比较好，也一直和北京的团队保持沟通。受到特殊时期的影响，原定的展览项目全部需要重新安排，之前也一直在调整今年的工作计划。早期大家都会认为只是一个中国的问题，然后很快就演变成一个全人类的问题，我想这对我们来说应该是一个教训。

Philip Tinari: When Wuhan was locked down, I was actually at the World Economic Forum in Davos. When SARS took place in 2003, I reported on it as intern at The New York Times, so I keenly felt some idea of what kind of countermeasures might be taken in China. But at no point did I expect that the scale and intensity of the pandemic might be far greater than the impact of SARS. I returned to Beijing on February 11, after spending three weeks traveling to Europe, Saudi Arabia, South Africa, and elsewhere over the Spring Festival holiday, through a complicated, convoluted route. Although the situation in China was more serious at the time, I thought it would be better to come back earlier, and I was constantly in touch with my team in Beijing. Due to this special period, our original exhibition program needs to be rescheduled, and we have been adjusting our work plans for this year. In the early days of the epidemic, everyone thought that it was just an issue for China, and then it suddenly became an issue for all humankind. I think this should be lesson for all of us.

2003年与邱志杰和王郁洋在“后感性:内幕”开幕后

With Qiu Zhijie and Wang Yuyang after the opening of a Post-Sense Sensibility theater happening, March 2003

2003年7月长征空间“王卫：临时空间”布展现场（田霏宇策划）

Installing Wang Wei’s exhibition Temporary Space at Long March Project, July 2003

艺讯网：有些悲观的情绪认为疫情之后可能会给中国当代艺术市场及环境带来一定的负面影响甚至影响到一些画廊甚至机构的生存，您怎样看这样的观点？UCCA又会采取怎样的后疫情对策？

CAFA ART INFO: Some pessimistic opinions state that the pandemic could have a negative impact on the market and overall environment for Chinese contemporary art, possibly even threatening the survival of some galleries and institutions. How do you view this situation? What post-pandemic countermeasures is UCCA taking?

田霏宇: 这件事情提醒我们，艺术圈的日常运作其实依托在一个既复杂又脆弱的体系之上，大家都在面对众多挑战与考验，我们也对UCCA作为艺术机构之于公众的意义进行了思考，并采取了切实行动。UCCA在这段特殊的时间其实也试图以一种积极的态度在面对，自2月10日延长公共假期之后，我们便采取远程办公，随后遵照政府要求陆续返回了工作岗位，同时将目光投向数字化领域，尝试为观众带来不同的艺术体验。如何整合线上线下业务是艺术机构一直以来都在面对的问题，当前的形势则为解决此问题提供了探索新可能的契机，尽管困难重重，但获得的所有经验将为重新开馆的UCCA注入更强大的活力。

Philip Tinari: This can remind us that the daily operation of the art world is actually based on a complicated and fragile system. Everyone is currently faced with many challenges and tests. We have been reflecting on the significance of UCCA to our public as an art institution, and accordingly we’ve tried to take action in a practical manner. We’ve also tried to maintain a positive attitude throughout this exceptional period. When public holidays were extended from February 10, we began working from home, and subsequently staggered the return of staff to our offices, in accordance with the government’s requirements. At the same time, we set our sights on the digital arena, trying to bring online artistic experiences unavailable elsewhere to our public. How to integrate online and offline presences remains an issue faced by many art institutions. The current situation provides an opportunity to explore new possibilities for solving this problem. Despite the difficulties encountered, all the experience we have gained during this period will bring even more vitality into UCCA when we reopen.

“聚焦：中国”展品：梁硕，《费特8号》，由艺术家和北京公社提供

Liang Shuo, Fit NO.8, Mixed Media, 303 x 144 x 303 cm, 2014; Courtesy of the artist and Yang Gallery, Beijing. At the Armory Show, Focus- China.

艺讯网：您曾经在2014年策划“聚焦：中国”参加军械库艺博会，在您的工作中也一直坚持着既向国际介绍中国当代艺术家，同时也向国内引进国际艺术家的展览，在这些过程中您觉得最有意思和最困难的地方是什么？

CAFA ART INFO: In 2014 you curated “Focus: China” at the Armory Show and have continued to work introducing Chinese contemporary artists to the world, while also bringing exhibitions by leading international artists to China. What do you think are the most interesting and difficult parts of these processes?

田霏宇: 我很希望中国当代艺术能被西方所谓的普通人所理解和欣赏，这其实也是需要依靠大量语境的转化。包括我参与策划了2017年古根海姆美术馆的展览“1989后的艺术与中国：世界剧场”，也是希望可以比较全面地去呈现中国当代艺术的关键事件和作品，甚至是我们的整个社会、经济和文化的语境。目前在国内我们有机会给观众提供一些真正的世界一流的展览，这个对我们合作的艺术家来说同样是很有意思的过程，比如说马修·巴尼可能也没想到UCCA这次的展览呈现比他在很多海外的美术馆甚至会更好更满意；同时我们通过这样的合作，给观众提供全球一流的展览体验，北京的观众观展和判断的水平也会逐渐变得越来越高。当然这不是我们一个机构的工作，很多机构都在往这个方向努力。假设你是一个中学生或者是大学生，或者是刚毕业开始工作，对当代艺术感兴趣的年轻人，在北京也可以看到很多很棒的展览，我觉得这才是一个强大的社会的体现。

Philip Tinari: I sincerely hope that contemporary Chinese art can be understood and appreciated by “ordinary people” in the West. This actually requires a great deal of transformation in terms of context. In “Art and China after 1989: Theater of the World” which I co-curated for the Guggenheim Museum in 2017, I hoped to present the key events and works of Chinese contemporary art in a more comprehensive manner, even to the point of including context on the entirety of society, economy and culture. At present, we have the chance to present truly world-class exhibitions to audiences in China. The results can also be interesting for the artists we collaborate with; for example, it did not occur to Matthew Barney that his exhibition at UCCA might be better executed and more closely satisfy his requirements than some of his shows at museums overseas. Meanwhile, the high-quality exhibitions produced by such collaborations may also help audiences in Beijing gradually build their ability to appreciate art and view it through a critical eye. Whether you’re a middle school or college student, or a recent graduate with an interest in art, you can see great exhibitions in Beijing. I think this is a sign of a healthy, dynamic society.

“1989后的艺术与中国：世界剧场”，图片来源：古根海姆博物馆

“Art and China after 1989: Theater of the World”，Photo Courtesy of Guggenheim Museum

艺讯网：近年来中国当代艺术环境相对以前更加地国际化，比如去年UCCA呈现展览《毕加索——一个天才的诞生》和《马修·巴尼：堡垒》都吸引了大量艺术爱好者购票排队进场观展；与此同时也有很多中国年轻艺术家和藏家从海外归来，这些都给国内的当代艺术环境带来新的刺激和影响，作为参与者和见证人，您觉得这些对中国本土艺术创作会带来怎样的影响？

CAFA ART INFO: In recent years, the Chinese contemporary art scene has become more international than before, as illustrated by last year’s UCCA exhibitions “Picasso – Birth of a Genius” and “Matthew Barney: Redoubt”, for which art lovers sometimes had to queue up to get into the museum. Meanwhile, there are also many young Chinese artists and collectors that have returned from time spent overseas. This has brought new influences and excitement to contemporary art in China. As a participant and observer, how do you think these changes will influence artmaking in China?

田霏宇: 很多艺术家的工作可能未必是有那么直接的目标，或者是如此清楚地去测量创作对社会的影响。但我觉得有两点，一个是艺术家可能会比较事先去预料到大趋势。很多好的艺术家的作品会提出一些可能，在主流媒体或者是主流社会还没有开始意识到，或者是还没有开始感觉到事情的急迫性的一些问题。至于会不会促进大家去思考这些问题，也不一定要马上下定义。第二点就是如果反过来看，再过几十年几百年当我们想了解如今时代的模样，艺术会是一个非常好的途径，就像我们去仓库获取过往的经验，了解以前的工作。这些当然也可以通过历史文献实现，但是艺术会更具有色彩，更有故事性地传达我们生活的社会秩序下存在的状况。

Philip Tinari: Many artists may not necessarily have a pointed goal for their works, nor do they have a way to clearly measure the impact of their creations on society. But here I think there are two points to be made. The first is that artists can sometimes anticipate larger trends in advance. Many great artists raise issues and possibilities that mainstream media and society are not yet conscious of or don’t view as urgent. As to whether this will encourage everyone to think about these issues, it is unnecessary to immediately define success in these terms. The second point is that if we look a things in reverse, and in a few decades or hundred years, want to understand our current era, looking at art is an excellent way to do so. It is like visiting a warehouse filled with past experiences, through which we can learn about the work that was done before. Of course, historical documents could give us this information, but art can, more vividly and with a greater sense of narrative, capture our lives and the present social order.

2005年9月与艺术家宋冬在政纯办第一次展览《只有一面墙》现场

With Song Dong at the first exhibition of Polit-Sheer-Form, Only One Wall, September 2005

艺讯网：UCCA在2018年重组之后新加入了专门的学术研究部门，并且定期举办相应的公教对话与活动，这种非常趋向美术馆的发展方向，在中国的非营利艺术机构中非常卓越并具有代表性，这种学术研究和架构未来会有哪些新的动向？是否考虑过跟其他学术机构建立合作？

CAFA ART INFO: After its reorganization, in 2018 UCCA launched a specialized academic research department, and has regularly been holding forums and other public education events. UCCA is an outstanding representative of this broader trend within non-profit art institutions in China. What new initiatives in research and institution-building will UCCA undertake? Have you considered cooperating with other academic institutions?

田霏宇: UCCA研究部成立时间比较短，大概两年的时间，我们首要工作是梳理UCCA过去的十几年的历史文献，这一直是UCCA的一项长期任务，同时还有出版和学术文本生产的一些工作。目前我们正在筹建图书馆，预计再过一年时间可以在北京主馆投入使用，开放给学者、学生和广大公众。自建馆以来，我们已经和国内外的出版社、艺术机构和设计师合作出版了超过60本书相关书籍，这也是UCCA学术输出的重要途径。希望未来可以跟其他的机构合作或者是引入更多的研究课题，围绕着这些话题去展开跨机构、跨领域的工作和讨论。

Philip Tinari: The establishment of UCCA’s Research Department happened relatively recently, only two years ago. The primary task ahead of it is to organize the documents that UCCA has generated over its more than ten years of history, which has been a long-term objective of UCCA. The department also produces and publishes academic texts. We are currently preparing for the launch of our library, which we expect to open at UCCA Beijing in a year, as a space welcoming academics, students, and the wider public. Since UCCA’s founding, we’ve already collaborated with publishers, art institutions, and designers in China and abroad to produce more than 60 books on art—this is an important avenue for our museum’s contributions to academic discourse. I hope that in the future, we can cooperate with more institutions and explore other research projects, undertaking work and discussions that go past the limits of what can be studied by a single institution or in a single discipline.

艺讯网：作为资深媒体人和策展人，您如何发掘发现新艺术家？您是否会去参观美术院校的毕业展？您又如何看待现在中国的艺术教育？

CAFA ART INFO: As an experienced art writer and curator, how do you discover new artists? Do you like to visit graduation exhibitions at Chinese art schools? What do you think of art education in China today?

田霏宇: 我经常会看一些展览，包括美院的毕业展，UCCA整个团队其实都会很及时很敏锐地在关注中国当代艺术领域在发生的事情，每次出现一些新的任务时第一时间可以建立相关联系。我觉得观察是非常重要的。

至于艺术教育，我觉得中国当代艺术非常重要的一个特色是它背后有庞大的教育系统在支撑，所以中国当代艺术的一般表现水平会比很多国家都要高，比如说最直接的体现就是在造型和绘画技术上。对于作品的完成度和艺术理念，这个系统也有它很重要的作用和可贵的贡献，但是在任何一个领域里，教育对于职业道路来说只能是一个初步阶段，毕业之后工作才真正地开始。毫无疑问这个体系教育出一批艺术家，但接下来如何真正地找到自己作为艺术家的道路，这肯定是每个人都得去面对去探索的。艺术之所以是艺术而不是医学，或者是法律等其他领域，恰恰是它没有一个那么明确的里程碑，在前进的道路上你需要不断地认清自己和提高自己。

Philip Tinari: I visit exhibitions all time, and this includes CAFA’s graduation exhibition. Actually the entire team at UCCA pays very close attention to what’s happening in the entire field of Chinese contemporary art, and whenever there’s a new project at the museum, we’re able to connect with the relevant people right away. I think observation of new developments is extremely important.

As for art education, I think a defining feature of Chinese contemporary art is the support of a tremendous education system. For example, a solid grounding in painting and sculptural technique has brought Chinese contemporary art to higher level, in general, than art from many other countries. The academy also plays a key role when it comes to the spread of artistic concepts and helping artists complete mature artworks. But as with any other field, education is just the first stage of career development, and work begins in earnest after graduation. Without a doubt, the education system produces artists, but the question of how to find your own path as an artist is something you can only face on your own. The reason art is art, rather than medicine, law, or another field, is precisely because there are no clear-cut milestones to pass. To move forward you must constantly strive to better understand and improve yourself.

艺讯网：2020年疫情过后您个人最期待实现的工作计划是什么？因为疫情改变了什么？又增加了什么？

CAFA ART INFO: Which of programs that UCCA has planned for after the pandemic situation improves are you personally most excited for? What has changed because of the pandemic? Have there been any additions to the museum’s plans?

田霏宇: 最期待的当然是UCCA可以顺利开馆。我们获悉由北京798艺术区主办的北京画廊周已确定将于5月21日开幕，这或许意味着届时我们的工作和生活将可以恢复正常。UCCA的策展团队目前正在积极筹备与北京画廊周同期开幕的UCCA夏季大展，这次展览的主题将对全球几个月来的形势做出回应。对于个人来说，我过去这些年的出行太多了，这当然也很好，可以观察到国际上的大都市都在做什么样的展览，有什么合适的项目可以引进，确实我们很多的合作也是需要到国外去敲定和推进的。但是到现在为止已经有60多天，一直待在北京，我在北京十几年从来没有这么长的时间没有离开过，连上海或者是北戴河都没去过，上次还是我在清华读书的时候。这段期间我跑步的公里数有很大的增长，现在的空气质量非常好，比如说从798跑回三里屯，如果没有这次疫情也很难想象可以在东三环上跑步。今年才过完第一个季度，看的书就已经比整个2019年要多……就是在日常的生活中发现了一些日常的乐趣。很多人在过去这些年总是为了行动而行动，可能未必想得很清楚，例如每次的出差有没有必要，而现在发现其实还是可以照样工作，我觉得对我们来说是一个值得思考的问题。因为像之前那样一直忙碌下去，其实大家都知道是没有可持续性的，这次我也深深地体会到了，而且也觉得对北京有一个新的认识。这场全球危机为世界带来了太多不确定与变数，不过在未来还是挺期待能再一次去到伦敦巴黎这样的城市，或者是意大利乡下等地方，期待以后还有再次到世界各地旅行的机会。

Philip Tinari: I’m most looking forward to a smooth reopening for UCCA. We recently found out that Gallery Weekend Beijing, organized by 798 Art District, will open on May 21, which could mean that our professional and private lives will be more or less back to normal by then. The curatorial team at UCCA is currently hard at work preparing UCCA’s marquee summer exhibition, which will open at the same time as Gallery Weekend. The theme of the exhibition will respond to the global situation over the past few months. For me personally, I’ve travelled too much over the past few years, which of course has also brought some benefits—I’ve been able to see how exhibitions are done in major cities around the world, and search for suitable projects to bring to UCCA. And indeed, many of our collaborations have required me going abroad to sign agreements and undertake promotion. But at this point I’ve been in Beijing for more than 60 days straight. In the past decade I’ve never stayed in Beijing for such a long unbroken stretch, without even going to Shanghai or Beidaihe. The last time was maybe back when I was still studying at Tsinghua University. On the other hand, since the air quality has been quite good, I’ve been running longer distances recently, for example from 798 back to Sanlitun. Without the epidemic, it is hard to imagine being able to run on the East Third Ring Road. And in the first quarter of 2020, I read more books than in the whole of 2019… So I’ve found everyday pleasures in my daily life. Over the past few years, many people have busily hurried about just for the sake of appearances, perhaps not thinking clearly about whether each business trip was truly necessary. Yet now we find that work is still able to continue more or less as usual. I think this is a question well worth reflecting on. I think everyone knows it would be unsustainable to continue at the same level of business as before. I feel I’ve learnt that on a deep level through this experience, and I’ve also gained a new understanding of Beijing. This global crisis has brought so much uncertainty and too many new variables to the world, but I am still looking forward to going to cities like London and Paris again, or somewhere in the Italian countryside, whenever it may be possible in the future. I hope I might have the opportunity to travel to other places around the world again soon.

图片由受访者本人提供，致谢受访者和相关机构。

Photo Courtesy of the Interviewee and Related Organizations.

注：本文仅代表受访者本人观点，不代表中央美术学院艺术资讯网机构立场。

Note: The views and opinions expressed in this interview are those of the interviewee and do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of CAFA ART INFO and its employees.