TED演讲：揭秘正常人和疯子之间的灰色地带

TED是一家非盈利机构，该机构以它组织的TED大会著称。TED指技术、娱乐、设计英语中缩写，这三个广泛的领域共同塑造着我们的未来。TED演讲特点是开门见山、观点响亮、看法新颖、种类繁多、毫无繁杂冗长的专业讲座。每一个演讲都可以说是最值得传播的思想，互联网让这些闪光的、值得传播的思想在世界各地传播......而TED大会宗旨就是：用思想的力量来改变世界！

有没有一条明确的界线可以区分疯子和正常人？《心理变态测试》一书的作者乔恩·朗森（Jon Ronson）通过一次令人毛骨悚然的演讲，照亮了两者之间的灰色区域。

演讲者：Jon Ronson

演讲题目: Strange answers to the psychopath test

TED视频TED演讲稿

The story starts: I was at a friend's house, and she had on her shelf a copy of the DSM manual, which is the manual of mental disorders. It lists every known mental disorder. And it used to be, back in the '50s, a very slim pamphlet. And then it got bigger and bigger and bigger, and now it's 886 pages long. And it lists currently 374 mental disorders.

故事的开头是这样的：我在一个朋友家里，在她的架子上有一本《DSM手册》，就是《精神疾病诊断与统计手册》。它列举了所有已知的精神疾病。而在50年代的时候，它还是本苗条的小册子。然后一步一步被增加成大胖子，现在已经有886页厚了。目前手册列举了374种精神疾病。 

So I was leafing through it, wondering if I had any mental disorders, and it turns out I've got 12.

所以我翻阅了一遍，想知道我是否有精神障碍，结果发现我得了12种。 

I've got generalized anxiety disorder, which is a given. I've got nightmare disorder, which is categorized if you have recurrent dreams of being pursued or declared a failure, and all my dreams involve people chasing me down the street going, "You're a failure!"

我得了广泛性焦虑症，这是一定的。我有恶梦障碍，如果你经常梦到被追求或者被宣告失败，那就被归类为恶梦障碍，我所有的梦都是人们在街上追我，然后说，“你是个失败的人！” 

I've got parent-child relational problems, which I blame my parents for.

我还有亲子关系上的问题，我埋怨我的父母。 

I'm kidding. I'm not kidding. I'm kidding. And I've got malingering. And I think it's actually quite rare to have both malingering and generalized anxiety disorder, because malingering tends to make me feel very anxious.

我在开玩笑。我不是开玩笑。我在开玩笑。而且我还装病。而且我认为这实际上是相当罕见的两个伪装和广泛的焦虑症，因为伪装往往使我感到非常焦虑。 

Anyway, I was looking through this book, wondering if I was much crazier than I thought I was, or maybe it's not a good idea to diagnose yourself with a mental disorder if you're not a trained professional, or maybe the psychiatry profession has a kind of strange desire to label what's essentially normal human behavior as a mental disorder.

不管怎样，我在翻阅这本书，想知道我是否比我想象的要疯狂得多，或者如果你不是受过训练的专业人士，自我诊断是否患有精神障碍可能不是个好主意，或者精神病学专业人士有一种奇怪的愿望，想把基本正常的人类行为称为精神障碍。 

I didn't know which of these was true, but I thought it was kind of interesting, and I thought maybe I should meet a critic of psychiatry to get their view, which is how I ended up having lunch with the Scientologists.

我不知道哪一个是真的，但我觉得这有点有趣，我想也许我应该见见一位精神病学的评论家来了解他们的观点，这就是我最后和山达基学者共进午餐的原因。 

It was a man called Brian, who runs a crack team of Scientologists who are determined to destroy psychiatry wherever it lies. They're called the CCHR. And I said to him, "Can you prove to me that psychiatry is a pseudo-science that can't be trusted?" And he said, "Yes, we can prove it to you." And I said, "How?" And he said, "We're going to introduce you to Tony."

这是一个叫布赖恩的人，他经营着一支由山达基学者组成的精干团队，他们决心摧毁精神病学，不管它在哪里。他们被称为CCHR。我对他说：“你能向我证明精神病学是一门不可信赖的伪科学吗？”他说：“是的，我们可以证明给你看。”我说，“怎么证明？”他说，“我们要把你介绍给托尼。” 

And I said, "Who's Tony?" And he said, "Tony's in Broadmoor." Now, Broadmoor is Broadmoor Hospital. It used to be known as the Broadmoor Asylum for the Criminally Insane. It's where they send the serial killers, and the people who can't help themselves. And I said to Brian, "Well, what did Tony do?"

我说，“托尼是谁？”他说，“托尼在布罗德摩尔。”现在，布罗德摩尔是布罗德摩尔医院。它曾被称为布罗德摩尔精神病院。他们把连环杀手和那些自食其力的人送到这里。我对布赖恩说：“托尼做了什么？” 

And he said, "Hardly anything. He beat someone up or something, and he decided to fake madness to get out of a prison sentence. But he faked it too well, and now he's stuck in Broadmoor and nobody will believe he's sane. Do you want us to try and get you into Broadmoor to meet Tony?" So I said, "Yes, please."

他说，“几乎什么坏事都做过。他殴打过某人或其他什么人，所以他决定假装疯狂以摆脱牢狱之灾。但他伪造得太好了，现在他被困在布罗德摩尔，没人会相信他是清醒的。你想让我们带你去布罗德摩尔见托尼吗？”所以我说，“是的，请。” 

So I got the train to Broadmoor. I began to yawn uncontrollably around Kempton Park, which apparently is what dogs also do when anxious, they yawn uncontrollably. And we got to Broadmoor. And I got taken through gate after gate after gate after gate into the wellness center, which is where you get to meet the patients. It looks like a giant Hampton Inn.

所以我搭上了去布罗德摩尔的火车。我开始在肯普顿公园不受控制地打哈欠，这显然是狗在焦虑时也会做的，它们不受控制地打哈欠。我们到了布罗德摩尔。我被带到健康中心，一个接一个区域地参观，在那里你可以见到病人。它看起来像一个巨大的汉普顿酒店。 

It's all peach and pine and calming colors. And the only bold colors are the reds of the panic buttons. And the patients started drifting in. And they were quite overweight and wearing sweatpants, and quite docile-looking. And Brian the Scientologist whispered to me, "They're medicated," which, to the Scientologists, is like the worst evil in the world, but I'm thinking it's probably a good idea.

这都是像桃子和松树那样平静的颜色。唯一大胆的颜色是恐慌按钮的红色。病人们开始慢慢地进来。他们很胖，穿着运动裤，看起来很温顺。山达基的布莱恩对我低声说，“他们有药物治疗”，对山达基来说，这是世界上最邪恶的事情，但我认为这可能是个好主意。 

And then Brian said, "Here's Tony." And a man was walking in. And he wasn't overweight, he was in very good physical shape. And he wasn't wearing sweatpants, he was wearing a pinstripe suit. And he had his arm outstretched like someone out of The Apprentice. He looked like a man who wanted to wear an outfit that would convince me that he was very sane.

然后布赖恩说：“托尼来了。”一个男人走进来。他没有超重，身体状况很好。他没有穿运动裤，穿着细条纹西装。他伸出手臂，像学徒中的某个人。他看起来像一个想穿一套能让我相信他很理智的衣服的人。 

And he sat down. And I said, "So is it true that you faked your way in here?" And he said, "Yep. Yep. Absolutely. I beat someone up when I was 17. And I was in prison awaiting trial, and my cellmate said to me, 'You know what you have to do? Fake madness. Tell them you're mad, you'll get sent to some cushy hospital. Nurses will bring you pizzas, you'll have your own PlayStation.'" I said, "Well, how did you do it?" He said, "Well, I asked to see the prison psychiatrist.

他坐了下来。我说，“那你在这里假装是真的吗？”他说，“是的。是的。当然。我17岁的时候打了一个人。我在监狱里等待审判，我的狱友对我说，你知道你要做什么吗？装疯。告诉他们你疯了，你会被送到舒适的医院。护士会给你带来披萨，你会有自己的游戏机的。“我说，”好吧，你是怎么做到的？”他说，“嗯，我要去看监狱的心理医生。 

And I'd just seen a film called 'Crash,' in which people get sexual pleasure from crashing cars into walls. So I said to the psychiatrist, 'I get sexual pleasure from crashing cars into walls.'" And I said, "What else?" He said, "Oh, yeah. I told the psychiatrist that I wanted to watch women as they died, because it would make me feel more normal." I said, "Where'd you get that from?" He said, "Oh, from a biography of Ted Bundy that they had at the prison library."

我刚看了一部电影叫《撞车》，电影里人们从撞车到墙上得到性快感。所以我对心理医生说，“我从撞墙中得到性快感。”然后我说，“还有什么？”他说，“哦，还有。我告诉精神病医生，我想看着女人死去，因为这会让我感觉更正常。“我说，”你从哪里学到的？”他说：“哦，是从他们在监狱图书馆里的泰德·邦迪传记里找来的。” 

Anyway, he faked madness too well, he said. And they didn't send him to some cushy hospital. They sent him to Broadmoor. And the minute he got there, said he took one look at the place, asked to see the psychiatrist, said, "There's been a terrible misunderstanding. I'm not mentally ill."

不管怎样，他装疯卖傻，他说。他们没有送他去什么舒适的医院。他们把他送到布罗德摩尔。他一到那里，他看了一眼那个地方，就说要去看心理医生，说：“有一个可怕的误会。“我没有精神病，” 

I said, "How long have you been here for?" He said, "Well, if I'd just done my time in prison for the original crime, I'd have got five years. I've been in Broadmoor for 12 years."

我说，“你在这里多久了？”他说：“好吧，如果我因原罪入狱，我只用坐5年牢。但我在布罗德摩尔已经12年了。” 

Tony said that it's a lot harder to convince people you're sane than it is to convince them you're crazy. He said, "I thought the best way to seem normal would be to talk to people normally about normal things like football or what's on TV. I subscribe to New Scientist, and recently they had an article about how the U.S. Army was training bumblebees to sniff out explosives.

托尼说，说服别人你是理智的要比说服别人你是疯狂的困难得多。他说：“我认为让人看起来正常的最好方法是和正常人谈论足球或电视上的事情。我订阅了《新科学家》，最近他们有一篇关于美国军队如何训练大黄蜂嗅出爆炸物的文章。

 So I said to a nurse, 'Did you know that the U.S. Army is training bumblebees to sniff out explosives?' When I read my medical notes, I saw they'd written: 'Believes bees can sniff out explosives.'

"所以我对一位护士说，你知道美国军队在训练大黄蜂嗅出爆炸物吗？当我读到我的医学笔记时，我看到他们写着：“相信蜜蜂能嗅出爆炸物。” 

He said, "You know, they're always looking out for nonverbal clues to my mental state. But how do you sit in a sane way? How do you cross your legs in a sane way? It's just impossible." When Tony said that to me, I thought to myself, "Am I sitting like a journalist? Am I crossing my legs like a journalist?"

他说，“你知道，他们总是在寻找我精神状态的非语言线索。但你怎么能保持清醒呢？你是如何以理智的方式交叉双腿的？这是不可能的。”当托尼对我说这句话时，我想：“我是不是得坐得像个记者？我是不是得像个记者似的跷着二郎腿？” 

He said, "You know, I've got the Stockwell Strangler on one side of me, and I've got the 'Tiptoe Through the Tulips' rapist on the other side of me. So I tend to stay in my room a lot because I find them quite frightening. And they take that as a sign of madness. They say it proves that I'm aloof and grandiose."

他说，“你知道，我一边有斯托克韦尔的勒死者，另一边有‘踮脚穿过郁金香’的强奸犯。所以我经常呆在房间里，因为我觉得他们很吓人。他们认为这是疯狂的表现。他们说这证明了我的冷漠和傲慢， 

So, only in Broadmoor would not wanting to hang out with serial killers be a sign of madness. Anyway, he seemed completely normal to me, but what did I know?“

所以，只有在布罗德摩尔，不想和连环杀手在一起才是疯狂的表现。不管怎样，我觉得他很正常，但我怎么能确定呢？

 And when I got home I emailed his clinician, Anthony Maden. I said, "What's the story?" And he said, "Yep. We accept that Tony faked madness to get out of a prison sentence, because his hallucinations -- that had seemed quite cliche to begin with -- just vanished the minute he got to Broadmoor. However, we have assessed him, and we've determined that what he is is a psychopath."

回家后我给他的临床医生安东尼·马登发了邮件。我说，“怎么回事？”他说，“是的。我们承认托尼假装疯了才从监狱里出来，因为他的幻觉——一开始似乎很老套——但在他到布罗德摩尔的那一刻就消失了。然而，我们已经对他进行了评估，我们已经确定他是一个精神病患者。” 

And in fact, faking madness is exactly the kind of cunning and manipulative act of a psychopath. It's on the checklist: cunning, manipulative. So, faking your brain going wrong is evidence that your brain has gone wrong. And I spoke to other experts, and they said the pinstripe suit -- classic psychopath -- speaks to items one and two on the checklist: glibness, superficial charm and grandiose sense of self-worth.

事实上，装疯卖傻正是一个精神病患者的狡猾和操纵行为。它的表现清单：狡猾，操纵。所以，假装你的大脑出了问题就是需要证明你的大脑出了问题。我和其他专家谈过了，他们说细条纹西装——典型的精神病患者——和清单上的一项和两项有关：浮华、肤浅的魅力和宏伟的自我价值感。 

And I said, "Well, but why didn't he hang out with the other patients?" Classic psychopath -- it speaks to grandiosity and also lack of empathy. So all the things that had seemed most normal about Tony was evidence, according to his clinician, that he was mad in this new way. He was a psychopath.

我说，“好吧，但他为什么不和其他病人出去玩呢？”典型的精神病患者——这意味着虚张声势和缺乏同情心。所以，据他的临床医生说，托尼所有看起来最正常的事情都是他以这种新方式发疯的证据。他是个精神病患者。 

And his clinician said to me, "If you want to know more about psychopaths, you can go on a psychopath-spotting course run by Robert Hare, who invented the psychopath checklist." So I did. I went on a psychopath-spotting course, and I am now a certified -- and I have to say, extremely adept -- psychopath spotter.

他的临床医生对我说：“如果你想了解更多关于精神病患者的信息，你可以去参加由罗伯特·黑尔（Robert Hare）开办的精神病患者识别课程，他发明了精神病患者检查表。”于是我就去了。我参加了一个精神病监测课程，现在我是一个认证的——我不得不说，非常熟练的——精神病监测员。 

So, here's the statistics: One in a hundred regular people is a psychopath. So there's 1,500 people in his room. Fifteen of you are psychopaths. Although that figure rises to four percent of CEOs and business leaders, so I think there's a very good chance there's about 30 or 40 psychopaths in this room. It could be carnage by the end of the night.

所以，下面是统计数字：100个正常人中就有一个是精神病患者。如果有1500人在他的房间里。则其中有15个是精神病患者。尽管这个数字上升到了CEO和商业领袖的4%，所以我认为这个房间里很有可能有30到40个精神病患者。到了晚上可能会是一场大屠杀。 

Hare said the reason why is because capitalism at its most ruthless rewards psychopathic behavior -- the lack of empathy, the glibness, cunning, manipulative. In fact, capitalism, perhaps at its most remorseless, is a physical manifestation of psychopathy. It's like a form of psychopathy that's come down to affect us all.

黑尔说，原因是资本主义最无情的回报就是精神变态的行为——缺乏同情心、浮华、狡猾、操纵。事实上，资本主义，也许在它最无情的时候，是一种精神病的物理表现。就像一种精神病，会影响我们所有人。 

Hare said, "You know what? Forget about some guy at Broadmoor who may or may not have faked madness. Who cares? That's not a big story. The big story," he said, "is corporate psychopathy. You want to go and interview yourself some corporate psychopaths."

野兔说：“你知道吗？忘了那个在Broadmoor的可能装疯的家伙。谁在乎呢？这不是什么大不了的故事。重要的事情是团体精神病。你需要亲自采访一些团体病患者。” 

So I gave it a try. I wrote to the Enron people. I said, "Could I come and interview you in prison, to find out it you're psychopaths?"

所以我试了一下。我写信给安然公司的人。我说，“我能来监狱里采访你，看看你是不是精神病患者吗？” 

And they didn't reply.

他们没有回答。 

So I changed tack. I emailed "Chainsaw Al" Dunlap, the asset stripper from the 1990s. He would come into failing businesses and close down 30 percent of the workforce, just turn American towns into ghost towns. And I emailed him and I said, "I believe you may have a very special brain anomaly that makes you ... special, and interested in the predatory spirit, and fearless. Can I come and interview you about your special brain anomaly?" And he said, "Come on over!"

所以我换了策略。我给90年代的资产剥离者“杀手艾尔”邓拉普发了邮件，他将使企业大规模破产，裁减掉30%的劳动力，把美国城镇变成鬼城。我给他发了邮件说，“我相信你可能有一个异常特殊的大脑，使你......很特别，因为你对掠夺者的精神感兴趣，无所畏惧。我能就你这个异常特殊的大脑来采访你吗？”他说：“过来！” 

So I went to Al Dunlap's grand Florida mansion. It was filled with sculptures of predatory animals. There were lions and tigers -- he was taking me through the garden -- there were falcons and eagles, he was saying, "Over there you've got sharks and --" he was saying this in a less effeminate way -- "You've got more sharks and you've got tigers." It was like Narnia.

所以我去了阿尔·邓拉普在佛罗里达的豪宅。里面摆满了掠夺性动物的雕塑。有狮子和老虎——他带我穿过花园——有猎鹰和老鹰，他说，“那边有鲨鱼，还有——”他用一种不那么娘娘腔的方式说，“你还能看到更多的鲨鱼和老虎。”就像在纳尼亚。 

And then we went into his kitchen. Now, Al Dunlap would be brought in to save failing companies, he'd close down 30 percent of the workforce. And he'd quite often fire people with a joke. Like, for instance, one famous story about him, somebody came up to him and said, "I've just bought myself a new car." And he said, "Well, you may have a new car, but I'll tell you what you don't have -- a job."

然后我们走进他的厨房。现在，阿尔·邓拉普将被请来拯救失败的公司，他将裁减30%的劳动力。他经常开玩笑解雇别人。例如，有一个他最出名的故事，有人走过来对他说：“我刚给自己买了一辆新车。”他说：“嗯，你可能有一辆新车，但我会告诉你你没有什么——一份工作。” 

So in his kitchen -- he was in there with his wife, Judy, and his bodyguard, Sean -- and I said, "You know how I said in my email that you might have a special brain anomaly that makes you special?" He said, "Yeah, it's an amazing theory, it's like Star Trek. You're going where no man has gone before." And I said, "Well --"

 (Clears throat)所以在他的厨房里——他和他的妻子朱迪，还有他的保镖肖恩——我说，“你知道我在邮件里是怎么说的，你可能有一个异常特殊的大脑，使你与众不同吗？”他说，“是的，这是一个惊人的事情，就像星际迷航。“你要去以前没人去过的地方。”我说，“嗯——”（清了清嗓子） 

Some psychologists might say that this makes you --" (Mumbles)

一些心理学家可能会说，这会让你--”（喃喃自语） 

And he said, "What?" And I said, "A psychopath." And I said, "I've got a list of psychopathic traits in my pocket. Can I go through them with you?"

他说：“什么？”我说，“沦为一个精神病患者。”我说，“我口袋里有一张精神病特征的清单。我可以和你一起看吗？” 

And he looked intrigued despite himself, and he said, "Okay, go on." And I said, "Okay. Grandiose sense of self-worth." Which I have to say, would have been hard for him to deny, because he was standing under a giant oil painting of himself.

尽管他看起来对此很好奇，但他依旧努力维持平静地说，“好的，继续。”我说，“好的。真是个自我感觉良好的人。”我不得不说，他很难掩饰自己，因为他正站在一幅巨大的油画下。 

He said, "Well, you've got to believe in you!" And I said, "Manipulative." He said, "That's leadership."

他说：“好吧，你必须相信你！”我说，“控制欲很强。”他说，“这就是领导力。” 

And I said, "Shallow affect, an inability to experience a range of emotions." He said, "Who wants to be weighed down by some nonsense emotions?" So he was going down the psychopath checklist, basically turning it into "Who Moved My Cheese?"

我说，“肤浅的情感，无法体验一系列的情感。”他说，“谁想被一些毫无意义的情感压得喘不过气来？”所以他把精神病检查表写下来，基本上就变成了“谁动了我的奶酪？” 

But I did notice something happening to me the day I was with Al Dunlap. Whenever he said anything to me that was kind of normal -- like he said "no" to juvenile delinquency, he said he got accepted into West Point, and they don't let delinquents in West Point. He said "no" to many short-term marital relationships.

但当我和艾尔·邓拉普在一起的那天，我注意到了一些事情确实发生在我身上。每当他对我说任何正常的话——比如他对青少年犯罪说“不”，他说他被西点军校录取，他们不让罪犯进入西点军校。他对许多短期婚姻关系说“不”。 

He's only ever been married twice. Admittedly, his first wife cited in her divorce papers that he once threatened her with a knife and said he always wondered what human flesh tasted like, but people say stupid things to each other in bad marriages in the heat of an argument, and his second marriage has lasted 41 years. So whenever he said anything to me that just seemed kind of non-psychopathic, I thought to myself, well I'm not going to put that in my book.

他只结过两次婚。诚然，他的第一任妻子在离婚文件中提到，他曾经用刀子威胁过她，并说他总想知道人肉的味道是什么，但在激烈的争吵时，尤其是在婚姻的泥潭中的人们，总会互相说些愚蠢的话，他的第二次婚姻已经维持了41年。所以每当他对我说一些看起来没有精神病的话时，我心里想，我不会把这些写进我的书里。 

And then I realized that becoming a psychopath spotter had kind of turned me a little bit psychopathic. Because I was desperate to shove him in a box marked "Psychopath." I was desperate to define him by his maddest edges.

然后我意识到成为一个精神病观察者让我有点神经病。因为我不顾一切地想把他塞进一个标有“精神病”的盒子里。我不顾一切地想用他最疯狂的边缘来定义他。 

And I realized, my God -- this is what I've been doing for 20 years. It's what all journalists do. We travel across the world with our notepads in our hands, and we wait for the gems. And the gems are always the outermost aspects of our interviewee's personality.

我意识到，天哪——这就是我20年来一直在做的事情。这是所有记者的工作。我们手拿记事本环游世界，等待某些特质的出现。而我们却总把别人最肤浅的一面当成了特质。 

And we stitch them together like medieval monks, and we leave the normal stuff on the floor. And you know, this is a country that over-diagnoses certain mental disorders hugely. Childhood bipolar -- children as young as four are being labeled bipolar because they have temper tantrums, which scores them high on the bipolar checklist.

我们像中世纪的僧侣一样把它们缝合在一起，把普通的东西留在地板上。你知道，这个国家对某些精神疾病的诊断过高。儿童期躁郁症——四岁的孩子被贴上躁郁症的标签是因为他们有脾气暴躁，这在躁郁症检查表上得分很高。 

When I got back to London, Tony phoned me. He said, "Why haven't you been returning my calls?" I said, "Well, they say that you're a psychopath." And he said, "I'm not a psychopath." He said, "You know what? One of the items on the checklist is lack of remorse, but another item on the checklist is cunning, manipulative. 

当我回到伦敦时，托尼给我打了电话。他说：“你为什么不回我的电话呢？”我说，“他们说你是精神病患者。”他说，“我不是精神病患者。”他说，“你知道吗？清单上的一个项目是缺乏自责，但清单上的另一个项目是狡猾、操纵。 

So when you say you feel remorse for your crime, they say, 'Typical of the psychopath to cunningly say he feels remorse when he doesn't.' It's like witchcraft, they turn everything upside-down." He said, "I've got a tribunal coming up. Will you come to it?" So I said okay.

所以当你说你对自己的罪行感到懊悔的时候，他们会说，“典型的精神病患者狡猾地说他不后悔的时候会感到懊悔。”“这就像巫术，他们把一切都颠倒过来。”他说，“我就要上法庭了。你愿意来吗？”所以我说可以。 

So I went to his tribunal. And after 14 years in Broadmoor, they let him go. They decided that he shouldn't be held indefinitely because he scores high on a checklist that might mean that he would have a greater than average chance of recidivism. So they let him go. 

后来我去了他的庭审。在布罗德摩尔待了14年后，他们放了他。他们决定不应该无限期关押他，因为他在清单上得分很高，这可能意味着他再犯的机会要高于平均水平。所以他们放了他。 

And outside in the corridor he said to me, "You know what, Jon? Everyone's a bit psychopathic." He said, "You are, I am. Well, obviously I am." I said, "What are you going to do now?" He said, "I'm going to go to Belgium. There's a woman there that I fancy. But she's married, so I'm going to have to get her split up from her husband.

"在走廊外面，他对我说，“你知道吗，乔恩？每个人都有点神经病。”他说，“你是，我也是。很明显，我也是。”我说，“你现在打算怎么办？”他说：“我要去比利时。那里有个我喜欢的女人。但她已经结婚了，所以我得把她和她丈夫分开。” 

Anyway, that was two years ago, and that's where my book ended. And for the last 20 months, everything was fine. Nothing bad happened. He was living with a girl outside London. He was, according to Brian the Scientologist, making up for lost time, which I know sounds ominous, but isn't necessarily ominous. 

不管怎么说，那是两年前的事了，我的书就这样结束了。在过去的20个月里，一切都很好。没发生什么坏事。他和一个女孩住在伦敦郊外。据山达基学者布莱恩说，他是在弥补失去的时间，我知道这听起来不祥，但未必不祥。 

Unfortunately, after 20 months, he did go back to jail for a month. He got into a "fracas" in a bar, he called it. Ended up going to jail for a month, which I know is bad, but at least a month implies that whatever the fracas was, it wasn't too bad.

不幸的是，20个月后，他确实回到了监狱一个月。他说因为他在酒吧里吵了一架。最后进了一个月的监狱，我知道这很糟糕，但至少有一个月意味着，无论争吵是什么，都不算太糟。

 And then he phoned me. And you know what, I think it's right that Tony is out. Because you shouldn't define people by their maddest edges. And what Tony is, is he's a semi-psychopath. He's a gray area in a world that doesn't like gray areas. But the gray areas are where you find the complexity. 

然后他打电话给我。你知道吗，我觉得托尼出去是对的。因为你不应该用人们最疯狂的边缘来定义他们。托尼是个半精神病患者。他是世界上一个不喜欢灰色地带的灰色地带。但灰色区域是你发现复杂性的地方。 

It's where you find the humanity, and it's where you find the truth. And Tony said to me, "Jon, could I buy you a drink in a bar? I just want to thank you for everything you've done for me." And I didn't go. What would you have done?

这是你发现人性的地方，也是你发现真相的地方。托尼对我说：“乔恩，我能请你去酒吧喝一杯吗？我只想感谢你为我所做的一切。”如果是你，你会怎么做？

Thank you.

谢谢您。

• TED演讲：改变自以为高效的“疯狂忙碌”
• TED演讲：记忆是怎么形成和消失的？

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