TED学院 | 化负为正：和给我负面评论的人对话
提示：点击↑上方"小芳老师"免费关注
Empathy is not endorsement
演讲者：Dylan Marron 迪恩·马龙
语言：英语
简介：数字创作者迪恩·马龙的节目，如“每字每句”和“与变性人共厕”，已累计了数百万的浏览——但是他发现成功的另一面是网络仇恨。后来，他逐渐研究出一种新奇的应对机制：打电话给那些留下冷漠评论的人，问他们一个简单的问题：“你为什么要写那些？” 通过这个精心准备的演讲，马龙讲述人们如何在网上交流，并解释为何有时候你能做的最颠覆的事其实是同那些与你有分歧的人交流，而不仅仅只是嘲讽他们。
（只看英文/中文字幕，请点击阅读原文）
📃 中英对照翻译
Hi. I've received hate online. A lot of it. And it comes with the territory of my work. I'm a digital creator, I make things specifically for the internet. Like, a few years ago, I made a video series called "Every Single Word" where I edited down popular films to only the words spoken by people of color, as a way to empirically and accessibly talk about the issue of representation in Hollywood.
嗨。我在网上收到了仇恨的情绪。很多很多。这跟我的工作领域有关。我是一名数字创作者，专门制作网络作品。大概几年前，我制作了一个视频系列，名叫“每字每句“，是把流行影片剪辑成只有非白人演员说台词的短视频，以此来直观实际地讨论好莱坞的有色群体代表这一话题。
Then, later, as transphobic bathroom bill started gaining media attention around the United States, I hosted and produced an interview series called "Sitting in Bathrooms with Trans People" where I did exactly that.
后来，由于“跨性别厕所令”开始在全美范围引发媒体关注，我主持并制作了一个访谈系列，名叫“与跨性别人士共厕“，真的是坐在厕所里访谈。
And then -- Sure, I'll take applause.
然后——没错，此处应有掌声。
Thank you. And then, are you familiar with those unboxing videos on YouTube where YouTubers open up the latest electronic gadgets? Great, so I satirized those in a weekly series, where instead I unboxed intangible ideologies like police brutality, masculinity and them is treatment of Native Americans.
谢谢。对了，你们看过YouTube上的拆箱视频吧？那些YouTube博主直播拆开最新电子产品包装盒。好的，那为了讽刺他们，我又做了一个周播系列，不过我拆箱的是无形的意识形态，比如警察暴行，男性气概和对美洲原住民的虐待。
My work -- Thanks. One person applauding, God bless.
我的作品——谢谢。谢天谢地，有一个人鼓掌了。
Mom, hi.
嗨，是你啊，老妈。
So, my work became popular. Very popular. I got millions of views, a ton of great press and a slew of new followers. But the flip side of success on the internet is internet hate. I was called everything. From "beta" to "snowflake" and, of course, the ever-popular "cuck." Don't worry, I will break these terms down for you.
于是我的作品火起来了，非常火。有数百万浏览量，大量媒体报导，我还多了一群新的追随者。但是在网上成功的另一面是网络仇恨。我被冠以各种称号。“贝塔“、"雪片人“，当然，还有一直很流行的“绿帽侠”。别担心，我会一个一个解释。
So, "beta," for those of you unfamiliar, is shorthand online lingo for "beta male." But let's be real, I wear pearl earrings and my fashion aesthetic is rich-white-woman-running-errands, so I'm not angling to be an alpha.
“贝塔”，如果你不了解这个词的话，它是网络词汇“贝塔男”（性格温和，带点阴柔美的男性）的缩写。不过说真的，我戴着珍珠耳环，而我的时尚观是白富美上班族，压根儿没想成为阿尔法女（比男性更出色的女性，类似女汉子）。
Doesn't totally work.
完全没可能嘛。
Now, "snowflake" is a put-down for people who are sensitive and believe themselves to be unique, and I'm amillennial and an only child, so, duh!
再来说“雪片人”，它是形容一个人很敏感，觉得自己很特殊，而我是千禧一代（80年以后出生），又是独生子，所以，还真说对了！
But my favorite, favorite, favorite is"cuck" It's a slur, short for "cuckold," for men who have been cheated on by their wives. But friends, I am so gay, that if I had a wife, I would encourage her to cheat on me.
但是我最、最、最爱的还是绿帽侠“cuck"。它是被戴绿帽的人"cuckold"的简读，指被自己妻子背叛的男人。可是朋友们呐，我是同性恋，就算真有妻子，我也会鼓励她出轨。
Thank you. Let's take a look at some of this negativity in action. Sometimes it's direct. Like Marcos, who wrote, "You're everything I hate in a human being." Thank you, Marcos. Others are more concise. Like Donovan, who wrote, "gaywad fagggggg."
谢谢。让我们回到正题，看几个负面评论。有时评论很直接。像马科斯，他写道，“你身上具有一切我讨厌的人类特征。”马科斯，谢谢哈。有些就更简洁些。像多诺万，他写的是，“土里土气的基佬。“
Now, I do need to point out, Donovan is not wrong, OK? In fact, he's right on both counts, so credit where credit is due. Thank you, Donovan. Others write to me with questions, like Brian, who asked, "Were you born a bitch or did you just learn to be one over time?" But my favorite thing about this is that once Brian was done typing, his finger must have slipped because then he sent me the thumbs-up emoji.
对了，我有必要说下，多诺万并没有错。实际上他两点都说对了，得给予他认可。多诺万，也谢谢你啦。还有人问问题，像布莱恩，他问，“你是天生的婊子还是后天学成的？”不过我最喜欢的就是布莱恩打完字肯定手滑了，因为他接着发了一个“赞”的表情。
So, babe, thumbs up to you, too.
所以，亲，我也给你个赞吧。
It's fun to talk about these messages now. Right? And it's cathartic to laugh at them. But I can tell you that it really does not feel good to receive them. At first, I would screenshot their comment sand make fun of their typos, but this soon felt elitist and ultimately unhelpful. So over time, I developed an unexpected coping mechanism.
这些网友留言说起来很好玩。对吧？调侃这些留言也是一种宣泄。但是我可以告诉大家接到它们的滋味可真不好受。一开始，我会截屏网友的评论然后取笑他们的拼写错误，不过很快我就觉得自己太“高高在上”，而且最终这也没啥用。所以逐渐地，我研究出一套新奇的应付机制。
Because most of these messages I received were through social media, I could often click on the profile picture of the person who sent them and learn everything about them. I could see pictures they were tagged in, posts they'd written, memes they'd shared, and somehow, seeing that it was a human on the other side of the screen made me feel a little better. Not to justify what they wrote, right? But just to provide context. Still, that didn't feel like enough. So, I called some of them -- only the ones I felt safe talking to -- with a simple opening question: "Why did you write that?"
因为多数我收到的留言都是通过社交媒体，我经常可以点开发送人的个人资料图片，了解他们的所有信息。我能看见标记了他们的图片，他们写的帖子，分享的谜因，知道屏幕另一边有一个人存在多少能让我感觉好一些。不是去证实他们写的对不对，可以理解吧？只是去了解下背景。但是，感觉还缺点什么。所以，我给其中一些人打电话——只打给那些我觉得能交谈的人——用一个简单的问题开场：“你为什么要写那个（评论）？”
The first person I spoke to was Josh. He had written to tell me that I was a moron, I was a reason this country was dividing itself, and he added at the end that being gay was a sin. I was so nervous for our first conversation. This wasn't a comments section. So I couldn't use tools like muting or blocking. Of course, I guess, I could have hung up on him. But I didn't want to. Because I liked talking to him. Because I liked him. Here's a clip of one of our conversations.
我第一个对话的人是乔什。他写信说我是一个白痴，说我是这个国家分裂的原因，结尾他又补充说同性恋是一种罪恶。第一次对话我紧张极了。这可不是网友评论部分，所以我不能静音或屏蔽。当然，我想，我本来也可以挂断的。但是我不想。因为我喜欢跟他说话。说实话我挺喜欢他的。给大家听一个对话片段。
(Audio) Dylan Marron: Josh, you said you're about to graduate high school, right?
（音频）迪伦·马龙：乔什，你说你快高中毕业了，是吧？
Josh: Mmm-hmm.
乔什：是啊。
DM: How is high school for you?
迪伦·马龙：那你的高中怎么样？
Josh: Am I allowed to use the H-E-double-hockey-stick word?
乔什：我可以说H-E-L-L这样骂人的话吗？
DM: Oh, yeah. You're allowed to.
迪伦·马龙：行，说吧。
Josh: It was hell.
乔什：简直就是地狱。
DM: Really?
迪伦·马龙：真的吗？
Josh: And it's still hell right now, even though it's only two weeks left. I'm a little bit bigger -- I don't like to use the word "fat," but I am a little bit bigger than a lot of my classmates and they seem to judge me before they even got to know me.
乔什：虽然只有两周就毕业了，但我现在还感觉跟在地狱似的。我体型比较大——我不喜欢用“胖”这个词，我只是比很多同学都大了一圈儿，可是他们甚至还不认识我呢，就对我指指点点。
DM: That's awful. I mean, I also just want to let you know, Josh, I was bullied in high school, too. So did our common ground of being bullied in high school erase what he wrote me? No. And did our single phone conversation radically heal a politically divided country and cure systemic injustice?
迪伦·马龙：真不像话。我是说，我也想跟你说，乔什，我在高中也被人欺负过。（音频结束）那么在高中被人欺负这个共同点会不会抹掉他写给我的那些东西？不会。我们这一通电话交流会不会从根本上拯救一个政治分裂的国家，并消除系统性的不公正？
No, absolutely not, right? But did our conversation humanize us to each other more than profile pictures and posts ever could? Absolutely. I didn't stop there. Because some of the hate I received was from "myside." So when Matthew, a queer liberal artist like me publicly wrote that I represented some of the worst aspects of liberalism, I wanted to ask him this.
不会，完全不会，对吧？但是我们的对话是不是比个人资料图片和发帖都更能拉近彼此的距离？当然。我没有就此止步。因为我收到的一些仇恨来自于“我方“。所以当马修，一个跟我一样的奇特自由派艺术家公开的说，我代表了自由主义最糟糕的一些方面，我就想问他下面这个问题。
DM: You tagged me in this post. Did you want me to see it?
（音频）迪伦·马龙：在这个帖子里你标记了我。是想让我看到吗？
Matthew (Laughing): I honestly didn't think that you would.
马修（笑）：坦白说我没想过你会看。
DM: Have you ever been publicly dragged?
迪伦·马龙：你有没有被公开标记过？
Matthew: I have been. And I just said,"No, I don't care."
马修：有过。然后我就说，“我不在乎。”
DM: And did you not care?
迪伦·马龙：你不在乎？
Matthew: But it was hard.
马修：但是挺难的。
DM: Did you not care?
迪伦·马龙：真的就不在乎？
Matthew: Oh, I cared, yes.
马修：哎，其实我还是很在乎的。（音频结束）
DM: At the end of these conversations, there's often a moment of reflection. A reconsideration. And that's exactly what happened at the end of my call with a guy named Doug who had written that I was a talentless propaganda hack.
在这些对话结尾，经常会有一段反思的时间。重新思考。我在和一个叫道格的家伙通话快结束时就发生了这样的事，他说我是一个毫无天分的宣传黑客。
(Audio) Did the conversation we just had --does it, like, make you feel differently about how you write online?
（音频）迪伦·马龙：我们刚才的对话——有没有让你感觉和在网上写评论不一样？
Doug: Yeah! You know, when I said this to you, when I said you were a "talentless hack," I had never conversed with you in my life, really. I didn't really know anything really about you. And I think that a lot of times, that's what the comment sections really are, it's really a way to get your anger at the world out on random profiles of strangers, pretty much.
道格：嗯！你知道吗，当我跟你在网上对话，当我说你是一个“毫无天分的黑客”时，我其实从没在现实生活中和你交流过。我其实并不真正了解你。我想来想去，这就是评论的本质吧，一种把自己对世界的愤怒发泄在陌生人身上的方式，真的，几乎可以这么说。
DM (Laughing): Yeah, right.
迪伦·马龙（笑）：哈哈，是啊。
Doug: But it definitely has made me rethink the way that I interact with people online.
道格：但是它绝对开始让我重新思考与人在网上互动的方式。（音频结束）
DM: So I've collected these conversations and many others for my podcast "Conversations with People Who Hate Me."
迪伦·马龙：所以我把这些还有很多这样的交谈汇总制作成播客“和仇恨我的人对话。“
Before I started this project, I thought that the real way to bring about change was to shut down opposing view points through epically worded video essays and comments and posts, but I soon learned those were only cheered on by the people who already agreed with me. Sometimes-- bless you. Sometimes, the most subversive thing you could do -- yeah, clap for him.
在开始这个项目前，我以为带来改变的真正方法是通过精心措辞的视频文章、评论和帖子来阻止对立观点，不过我很快就意识到这些只会让已经支持我的人欢呼。有时——祝福你。有时，你能做的最颠覆的事就是——对啊，鼓励他一下吧。
Sometimes, the most subversive thing you could do was to actually speak with the people you disagreed with, and not simply at them.
有时，你能做的最颠覆的事就是和那些与你有分歧的人交谈，而不仅仅是去嘲讽他们。
Now in every one of my calls, I always ask my guests to tell me about themselves. And it's their answer to this question that allows me to empathize with them. And empathy, it turns out, is a keying redient in getting these conversations off the ground, but it can feel very vulnerable to be empathizing with someone you profoundly disagree with.
现在，在每一次通话中，我总会请嘉宾介绍一下自己。他们对这个问题的答案让我能够同情下他们。事实证明，同情是让交流顺利开始的关键因素，但是去同情一个和你有严重分歧的人会使人变得很脆弱。
So I established a helpful mantra for myself. Empathy is not end or sement. Empathizing with someone you profoundly disagree with does not suddenly compromise your own deeply held beliefs and endorse theirs. Empathizing with someone who, for example, believes that being gay is a sin doesn't mean that I'm suddenly going to drop everything, pack my bags and grab my one-way ticket to hell, right?
所以我给自己设立了一条有用的原则。同情不是认可。同情一个你极其反对的人并不会突然地就违背你深信的观念，而去认可他们的观念。比如，同情一个认为同性恋是一种罪恶的人，并不意味着我忽然就要放下自己的一切，非要抢一张去地狱的单程票，对吗？
It just means that I'm acknowledging the humanity of someone who was raised to think very differently from me. I also want to be super clear about something. This is not a prescription for activism. I understand that some people don't feel safe talking to their detractors and others feel so marginalized that they justifiably don't feel that they have any empathy to give. I totally get that. This is just what I feel well-suited to do.
它只是意味着我认可有这样一类人，他们被塑造成为与我想法截然不同的人。我也想彻底明白一些事。这不是行动派的解决方案。我理解有些人觉得与自己的反对者交谈不安全，而另一些人会觉得自己被严重排挤，以至于他们有理由觉得自己没有什么同情要给予。我完全理解。这只是我觉得适合做的事情。
You know, I've reached out to a lot of people for this podcast. And some have politely declined, others have read my message and ignored it, some have blocked me automatically when I sent the invitation and one guy actually agreed to do it and then, five minutes into the call, hung up on me.
你们知道吗，我联系了很多人来这档播客。有些人礼貌的拒绝了，有些人已经读了我的信息，但是没有理会，还有些人在我发邀请时已经自动把我屏蔽，最后有一个家伙居然同意了，然而，通话五分钟后，他挂断了。
I'm also aware that this talk will appear on the internet. And with the internet comes comment sections, and with comment sections inevitably comes hate. So as you are watching this talk, you can feel free to call me whatever you'd like. You can call me a "gaywad," a"snowflake," a "cuck," a "beta," or" everything wrong with liberalism." But just know that if you do, I may ask you to talk. And if you refuse or block me automatically or agree and hang up on me, then maybe, babe, the snowflake is you.
我也知道这个演讲会被放到网上。放到网上就会有评论，有评论就会有仇恨。所以在你观看这个演讲时，你可以随便称呼我。你可以叫我“同性恋“、”雪片人“、”绿帽侠“、”贝塔男“，或是“自由主义的一切过错”。但是记住了，如果你这样做了，我可能就会请你来谈谈。如果你拒绝或是自动屏蔽，或者是同意了又挂断我电话，那么，亲，你可能才是那个“雪片人”哟。
Thank you so much.(Applause)
非常感谢。（鼓掌）
网络资源，仅供学习，侵权即删
合集收藏
语音单词：美音发音视频教程 & 英音发音视频教程 & 单词3500
新闻英语：VOA标准 & VOA慢速 & BBC新闻 & 18BBC地道英语
歌曲TED: 听歌学英语 & TED合集 & 18年歌曲合集 & 19年歌单
看了吗☺你懂我意思☟☟☟