美国PCRM爱心博士三个目标：拯救你、我、它
专家访谈
《专访尼尔·巴纳德博士－美国责任医师协会的创始人》
《INTERVIEW WITH DR. NEAL BARNARD, Founder of the Physicians Committee for Responsible Medicine》
文 / By：Herwin Walravens
美国责任医师协会成立于1985年，由乔治华盛顿大学医学系副教授巴纳德博士创建。现时美国责任医师协会共有35个职工和有150,000位会员，其中包括12,000位医。
The PCRM was founded in 1985 by Dr Neal Barnard, adjunct associate professor of.medicine at the George Washington University.Currently the PCRM has 35 employees and more than 150.000 members including 12.000 physicians.
美国责任医师协会所创建的为生命饮食项目中，有134位来自美国的指导员，同时也有84位来自13个国家的联盟导师。
PCRM’s Food for Life program has 134 instructors in the USA as well as 84 Educational Alliance Partners in 13 countries.
巴纳德博士发表过超过50篇有关营养的论文，其中包括《处理糖尿病》，《美国临床营养日志》, 还有《美国心脏学日志》。他同时也出版过超过15本书籍，包括他的畅销书 《21天减肥计划》和《增强大脑的食物》。
Dr Neal Barnard is the author of more than 50 published papers on nutrition, including papers published in Diabetes Care, the American Journal of Clinical Nutrition, and the American Journal of Cardiology, and more than 15 books including the bestselling books 21 Day Weight Loss Kickstart and Power Foods for the Brains.
Herwin: 您好巴纳德博士，首先让我向你们美国责任医师协会在30年内成功建立的成果的伟大成就致敬。
Herwin: Hello Dr. Neal Barnard. First of all let me congratulate you on the 30th Anniversary of the PCRM and all the good work you have achieved.
巴纳德博士：谢谢你！Dr Neal Barnard: Thank you!
Herwin: 对于纯素食、动物实验等方面，在你们30多年来的努力下，如今社会的价值观和认受性产生了什么改变？
Herwin: What has changed in society in regard to the acceptance of veganism, animal experiments, etc? What progress has been made in 30 years?
巴纳德博士：近30年来我们的确看到了社会对植物性饮食的接受程度大大提升 41 36342 41 14987 0 0 2798 0 0:00:12 0:00:05 0:00:07 2906我们在研究中不断发现，植物性饮食对身体健康带来极大的好处，而且这些信息也在迅速传播蔓延全球，告诉大家真正能够获得健康的饮食方法是减少肉类和蛋奶类产品而着重于纯素饮食。我们看到纯素食现今在全世界得到非常大的重视。可以从各媒体中看到这一点，很多明星都开始吃素。还有很多政治界领袖也转为纯素生活－前任总统比尔·克林顿(Bill Clinton)，副总统戈尔 (Al Gore)和多位国会代表。亦有些娱乐界巨星纷纷加入了纯素饮食的行列，比如珍妮弗·洛佩兹 (Jennifer Lopez)和碧昂丝 (Beyoncé)。纯素生活正趋向成为社会主流。
Dr Neal Barnard: In the past 30 years we’ve seen quite a lot of progress in the acceptance of vegan diets. Research continues to show that eating a plant-based diet can significantly improve health, and the word is spreading that the best way to prevent disease and promote health is to cut the meat and dairy products and focus on plants. So we’re seeing a lot more interest in vegan diets these days. You can see this in the media too, especially with celebrities. In the past years alone, many leaders have adopted vegan diets—President Bill Clinton, Vice President Al Gore, and several members of Congress. The same is true for many big-name stars including Jennifer Lopez and Beyoncé, who have switched to a vegan diet either partially or entirely. It’s really becoming more mainstream.
此外，令我引以为傲的，就是我们已经成功树立了替代动物实验的设施，在美国97%和加拿大100%的医学院实验室里，以更好的教学方式来替代使用动物进行实验方法。至于医学教育领域以外的其他研究和实验慢慢地也在逐渐靠拢这个方向。至于还一直扎根于传统研究方式的科学实验团体，也开始明白到使用动物进行实验的局限性，而且也认识到传统的残忍研究手段必需要改变为先进的方法进行研究，以进一步切合人类生物学与人类需求。
In addition, I am proud to say that we’ve fostered the replacement of animal laboratories with better teaching methods at 97% of the medical schools in the U.S. and 100% of the medical schools in Canada. Outside of medical education, research is slowly but surely heading in the same direction. The scientific community is rooted in its traditional ways of research, but it is beginning to recognize the limitations of using animal models, and the need to move away from these cruel and ineffective methods and toward modern techniques focusing on human biology and human needs.
Herwin: 现时美国责任医师协会主要专注于哪方面的问题？
Herwin: What issues does PCRM currently focus on and why?
巴纳德博士：我们现在有三个主要目标，它们是：拯救人类和动物的生命，进行科学实验采取先进、强而有力和有效的测试方法来替代传统使用动物的残忍方法；通过创新研究发掘植物性饮食与营养，对人体疾病因素方面作出巨大的突破；宣传植物性饮食对人类健康和长寿方面作出贡献。
Dr Neal Barnard: Our three main objectives right now are:
1. to save human and animal lives by replacing the use of animals in science with modern, powerful, and effective human-focused methods.
2. to make a quantum leap in addressing the causes of human illness through innovative research on plant-based nutrition.
3. to advance human health and longevity by promoting plant-based diets.
Herwin: 对于解决疾病的问题，为何现今科学都专注于研究治病的医药，没有在医学范畴里面寻找疾病源头去作预防？假若着重预防疾病的宣传，对医药行业数以十亿计售卖药丸的利润，莫非会招致损失？
Herwin: When it comes to finding a solution for diseases, why, in regular medicine, is the focus on drugs and not on prevention? Could it be that there is no profit to be made in promoting prevention, while selling pills is a billion dollar industry?
巴纳德博士：社会上绝对有利益集团的因素而导致现有的状况。医药行业里都是坐拥数十亿元规模的大企业。治病的医药费从中可以赚到大笔的利润，然而预防疾病让人们维持健康的，却没有多少经济利益。但是保健的根本意义不就是让人们保持健康吗？所以你说的很对。
Dr Neal Barnard: There is definitely a conflict of interests at play. Drug and pharmaceutical companies are multi-billion dollar corporations. There’s a lot of money to be made in treating side effects (or as some call it, “sick care”), but not a lot of profit in preventing disease and keeping people healthy, which is what health care should be. So that’s definitely a big part of it.
Herwin: 美国责任医师协会的网站上有大量关于健康的信息资料，教育了大量公众人士，还有很出名的21天素食挑战。你们会否向更多的医生提供帮助？
Herwin: The PCRM educates a lot of regular people with health information on its website, and popular participation programs like the 21 Day Kickstart program. Does the PCRM also reach out to fellow physicians?
巴纳德博士: 我们会尽可能向专业医护人员尽量提供信息。暑期我们将会在美国华盛顿举办一场全球医学营养大会，题目为心血管疾病。在过去的两年我们也举办过关于其他健康主题的全球性会议，我们希望以后会成为每年举行一次的活动。我们聚集了全世界的专家在大会上分享他们的经验和知识。大会结束后，所有的演讲都免费发布在网络上，而且专业医护人士可以通过观看获得额外学分。我们希望通过分享这些宝贵的信息，让更多的医生和医学界人士帮助推广植物性饮食和预防医学。
Dr Neal Barnard: We do try to educate health care professionals as much as possible. This summer we are hosting a medical conference in Washington, DC, The International Conference on Nutrition in Medicine: Cardiovascular Disease. We’ve hosted conferences focusing on other health topics for the past two years and hope to continue doing so as an annual event. We bring in leading experts from around the globe to share their knowledge and experience. After the conferences, videos of all of the lectures are available online for free and health care professionals can receive continuing medical education credits for watching. We hope that by making this information available, we’ll continue to see more physicians and others in the medical field promoting plant-based nutrition and preventive medicine.
Herwin: 医学领域中，对于一些流行疾病如肥胖症，糖尿病，冠心病，癌症等，现时是否已经有一部分从传统的药物和手术治疗，转而趋向于预防方面而进行宣传健康饮食？
Herwin: Is there a shift away from pills and surgery in the medical community, towards preventing epidemic-like diseases such as obesity, diabetes, coronary disease and cancer, by promoting healthy foods?
巴纳德博士：当然有。现时已经有不少医学团体和医学研讨大会专门针对疾病的预防以及健康的生活和饮食方式，他们不但越来越受大众欢迎，而且不断地将会有更多这类的医学团体组织起来。
Dr Neal Barnard: Definitely. There are a number of medical societies and conferences that focus on prevention and lifestyle medicine already, and not only are these gaining popularity, but more are being formed all the time.
Herwin: “牛奶对骨骼有好处” - 这是科学事实？还是一句出自奶品产业过时的宣传口号？
Herwin: “Milk is good for your bones”- scientific fact or an outdated slogan from the dairy industry?
巴纳德博士：奶品产业试图说服公众，奶制品可为人类和甚至骨骼带来健康，这全都是错误的。如果你看见了我们的研究以后，你会发现奶制品对骨骼没有好处，而且还会对健康带来很多的危害。
Dr Neal Barnard: The dairy industry has tried to convince people that dairy products are healthy and somehow important for bone health, but neither is true. If you actually look at the research that has been conducted, you’ll find that dairy products do not improve bone health and can actually be dangerous to health in many ways.
Herwin: 想变成一位纯素食者是否很困难？我们是否需要一个计划？
Herwin: Is it hard to adopt a vegan diet? Do I need to make a “plan”?
巴纳德博士：就当作为你的“健康冒险记”吧。刚开始先尝试3个星期左右，你会发现自己有第二种天性。你的味蕾会产生变化，而且你会很自然地有了一个令自己舒服的日常习惯。我们身边有很多资源可以帮助大家来转变饮食习惯。当然我最喜欢的就是21天素食挑战，大家可以上网免费下载并去实践。这套方案有英文、西班牙、中文等不同版本。
Dr Neal Barnard: Think of it as a healthy adventure. Try it out for just three weeks or so. You’ll find that it becomes second-nature. Your taste buds change and you get into a routine that you are comfortable with. Thankfully, there are tons of resources available for anyone who needs a little help getting started. Of course one of my favourites is our 21-day Vegan Kickstart program, which is available online for free in English, Spanish, and Chinese.
Herwin: 怎样与非素食者共餐？
Herwin: What about having dinner with omnivore people?
巴纳德博士：我经常会在不同的会议中与一些尚未采取健康饮食的人士同桌进餐。他们有很多疑问，所以我们的话题经常会转移到他们的提问上。我正面地去回答，我从来不以道德角度来讨论。我让自己成为一个良好的榜样，直到他们也转变他们的饮食习惯（他们普遍都会转变）。
Dr Neal Barnard: I very often find myself at conferences and dinners where I eat with people who are not yet following a healthy diet. They have lots of questions, and so the conversation usually turns to what they are curious about. I keep it positive, and I never moralize. And I try to be a good example that others can follow when they come around to it (they often will!).
Herwin: 低碳水化合物阿金（Atkins）减肥法的创始人死于心脏病，而且在死时体重超于200磅。也太过分了。那么，巴纳德博士，让我们来讨论一下您宣传低脂肪，纯素食和整全食物，你又正处于一个什么样的健康状态呢？
Herwin: The founder of the once popular low carb Atkins Diet (a diet that promotes eating meat) died of a heart attack and weighed 200 pounds at the time of his death. So much for that diet!How about Dr Neal Barnard, promoter of the low fat whole food plant based diet? How is his health and how much does he weigh?
巴纳德博士：到目前为止还很棒。我的体重跟我当年上医学院的时候一样，而且我会保持这种状态！
Dr Neal Barnard: So far so good. I weigh the same as I did in medical school, and I’m aiming to stay that way!
Herwin: 在维基百科上看到关于你的个人资料，巴纳德博士出生于1953年，但是我并没有发现你有白发。那是不是因为你的照片是很早以前放上去的或者你经常染发？
Herwin: According to your online Wikipedia page you were born in 1953, yet I can’t spot any grey hair. Are your photos online outdated or do you dye your hair?
巴纳德博士：你太可爱了！其实你仔细点看，我也偶尔会长出几根白发，当然以后我的老化是在所难免的，但是现在，我尽全力保持一个健康年轻的状态。
Dr Neal Barnard: Very cute! If you look a bit more closely, I do have the occasional grey hair, and sooner or later age will catch up with me. But for now, I’m doing my best to stay young.
- END -
采访 / Herwin Walravens
图 / GoVegAsia & PCRM编辑 / GoVegAsia
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