TED演讲 | 让我们聊聊不公正

| 简介

这是破TED鼓掌纪录最久的演说， 在这个演讲里，人权律师布莱恩·史蒂文森通过讲述他与其外婆以及与帕克斯夫人之间的故事，告诉了大家一些美国司法系统中的骇人真相。演讲从讲述大规模的的种族不平等待遇开始：三分之一美国黑人男性有被监禁的经历。这些问题源于美国一段不被重视的历史，它们从未像今天这样被坦诚地，有洞察力地和有说服力地公开讨论过。

| 音频 + 视频

| 中英对照演讲稿

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Well this is a really extraordinary honor for me.

很荣幸来到这里。

I spend most of my time in jails, in prisons, on death row.

我大多数时候都在管教所，在监狱里，在死囚室中。

I spend most of my time in very low-income communities in the projects and places where there's a great deal of hopelessness.

大部分时间我在低收入的社区里工作，在充满绝望的地区，做前途暗淡的项目。

And being here at TED and seeing the stimulation, hearing it, has been very, very energizing to me.

今天来到TED，看到听到这些激动人心的演讲，给了我一针强心剂。

And one of the things that's emerged in my short time here is that TED has an identity.

在这短短的时间里，我注意到TED有自己的定位。

And you can actually say things here that have impacts around the world.

你可以看到这里发生的事情影响全世界。

And sometimes when it comes through TED, it has meaning and power that it doesn't have when it doesn't.

有时当事情发生在TED的讲台上，比发生在别处更有意义，更有影响。

And I mention that because I think identity is really important.

我提起这个是因为我觉得自我定位很重要。

And we've had some fantastic presentations.

我们已经听了一些精彩的演说。

And I think what we've learned is that, if you're a teacher your words can be meaningful,

我们已经体会到作为一个老师，你的话是有影响力的，

but if you're a compassionate teacher, they can be especially meaningful.

如果你是个很慈善的老师，你的教导就格外意味深长。

If you're a doctor you can do some good things, but if you're a caring doctor you can do some other things.

作为一个医生，你能够帮助人，如果你是个体恤病人的医生，你能帮助更多。

And so I want to talk about the power of identity.

所以我想讲讲定位的重要性。

And I didn't learn about this actually practicing law and doing the work that I do.

我不是从做律师或者做其他项目学到怎样自我定位的。

I actually learned about this from my grandmother.

我其实是从我外婆那里学到的。

I grew up in a house that was the traditional African-American home that was dominated by a matriarch, and that matriarch was my grandmother.

我的家庭是一个传统的黑人家庭，只有一个女家长，就是我的外婆。

She was tough, she was strong, she was powerful. She was the end of every argument in our family.

她很坚韧，也很强壮，威风凛凛。家里有争执，她有决定权。

She was the beginning of a lot of arguments in our family.

不过很多事儿也是她挑起来的。

She was the daughter of people who were actually enslaved.

她的父母曾是真正的黑奴。

Her parents were born in slavery in Virginia in the 1840's.

在19世纪40年代的弗吉尼亚州，她的父母生而为奴。

She was born in the 1880's and the experience of slavery very much shaped the way she saw the world.

我外婆是十九世纪八十年代生的，这段父母被奴役的经历决定了她看世界的角度。

And my mother, my grandmother was tough, but she was also loving.

我的外婆很强势，但她也很慈爱。

When I would see her as a little boy, she'd come up to me and she'd give me these hugs.

当我是个小男孩时，每次见到她都拥抱我。

And she'd squeeze me so tight I could barely breathe and then she'd let me go.

她抱得那么紧，我都透不过气来，然后她才会放开我。

And an hour or two later, if I saw her, she'd come over to me and she'd say, "Bryan, do you still feel me hugging you?"

一两个小时之后，当我再见她，她会过来问我：“还能感觉我的拥抱么？”

And if I said, "No," she'd assault me again, and if I said, "Yes," she'd leave me alone.

如果我说“感觉不到了”，她就再度出击，直到我说“感觉得到”，她才放开我。

And she just had this quality that you always wanted to be near her.

她就是有这个能力让你老是想亲近她。

And the only challenge was that she had 10 children. My mom was the youngest of her 10 kids.

唯一的挑战是她有十个儿女，我妈妈是十个里最年轻的。

And sometimes when I would go and spend time with her, it would be difficult to get her time and attention.

常常当我去和外婆亲近时，很难让她注意到我，有时间陪我。

My cousins would be running around everywhere.

我的表兄妹们总是无处不在。

And I remember, when I was about eight or nine years old, waking up one morning,

我记得，当我八九岁时的一次，我早上醒来，

going into the living room, and all of my cousins were running around.

跑到客厅，所有的表兄妹都在。

And my grandmother was sitting across the room staring at me.

我外婆坐在房间的另一端，盯着我看。

And at first I thought we were playing a game.

一开始我以为我们在玩游戏。

And I would look at her and I'd smile, but she was very serious.

我就看回去，对她笑笑，但我外婆是很严肃的。

And after about 15 or 20 minutes of this, she got up and she came across the room and she took me by the hand and she said,

大概十五还是二十分钟之后，她站起来，穿过房间，牵住我的手对我说：

"Come on, Bryan. You and I are going to have a talk."

“过来，布莱恩，我们得谈谈。”

And I remember this just like it happened yesterday. I never will forget it.

这就像是昨天才发生的一样，我永远忘不掉。

She took me out back and she said, "Bryan, I'm going to tell you something, but you don't tell anybody what I tell you."

她把我带到一边说：“我想和你说些事，你不许和任何人说。”

I said, "Okay, Mama." She said, "Now you make sure you don't do that." I said, "Sure."

我答应了：“好的，外婆。”她说：“保证绝不说出去。”我回答：“保证。”

Then she sat me down and she looked at me and she said, "I want you to know I've been watching you."

然后我们坐下，她看着我说：“我想让你知道我观察你有一段时间了。”

And she said, "I think you're special." She said, "I think you can do anything you want to do." I will never forget it.

接着她说：“你是个特别的孩子。”她说：“我确信你是无所不能的。”这我永远不会忘记。

And then she said, "I just need you to promise me three things, Bryan." I said, "Okay, Mama."

接着她说：“我想让你向我保证三件事。”我说：“好的外婆。”

She said, "The first thing I want you to promise me is that you'll always love your mom."

她说：“第一，我想让你保证你会永远爱你的妈妈。”

She said, "That's my baby girl, and you have to promise me now you'll always take care of her."

她说：“你妈妈是我的心头肉，你得向我保证你会永远爱护她。”

Well I adored my mom, so I said, "Yes, Mama. I'll do that."

我很爱我妈妈，我说：“好，外婆，我会。”

Then she said, "The second thing I want you to promise me is that

接着她说：“第二件事，是你要答应我，

you'll always do the right thing even when the right thing is the hard thing."

你会永远走正路，即使走正路是很难的选择。”

And I thought about it and I said, "Yes, Mama. I'll do that."

我想了想回答：“好的外婆，我会的。”

Then finally she said, "The third thing I want you to promise me is that you'll never drink alcohol."

最后她说：“第三件事，我要你保证你永不喝酒。”

Well I was nine years old, so I said, "Yes, Mama. I'll do that."

我才九岁，我答应：“好，外婆，我保证。”

I grew up in the country in the rural South, and I have a brother a year older than me and a sister a year younger.

我在南部的乡下长大，我有个哥哥大我一岁，还有个妹妹小我一岁。

When I was about 14 or 15, one day my brother came home and he had this six-pack of beer

当我十四五岁时，一天我哥哥带回到家半打啤酒，

I don't know where he got it -- and he grabbed me and my sister and we went out in the woods.

我都不知道他怎么弄到的，他带上我和我妹妹，

And we were kind of just out there doing the stuff we crazily did.

跑到树林里一通疯玩疯跑。

And he had a sip of this beer and he gave some to my sister and she had some, and they offered it to me.

他喝了一口啤酒，递给我妹妹，她也喝了，然后他们递给了我。

I said, "No, no, no. That's okay. You all go ahead. I'm not going to have any beer."

我说：“我不要。没事，你们喝。我不喝。”

My brother said, "Come on. We're doing this today; you always do what we do. I had some, your sister had some. Have some beer."

我哥哥说：“来嘛，我们今个儿都喝。你老是和我们一条阵线的。我喝了点，妹妹也喝了点，你来些。”

I said, "No, I don't feel right about that. Y'all go ahead. Y'all go ahead."

我说：“不，我不想喝。你们喝你们喝。”

And then my brother started staring at me. He said, "What's wrong with you? Have some beer."

我哥哥盯住我问：“你有什么毛病？喝一点。”

Then he looked at me real hard and he said, "Oh, I hope you're not still hung up on that conversation Mama had with you."

接着他细细打量了我一会，问我：“噢，你不会还想着外婆要你保证的事吧。”

I said, "Well, what are you talking about?"

我说：“你在说什么呀？”

He said, "Oh, Mama tells all the grandkids that they're special." I was devastated.

他说：“外婆和每个外孙都说他很特别。”我这个伤心呀。

And I'm going to admit something to you. I'm going to tell you something I probably shouldn't.

现在我想向大家坦白一件事。可能不该在这里说。

I know this might be broadcast broadly.

因为这个演讲是会到处播的。

But I'm 52 years old, and I'm going to admit to you that I've never had a drop of alcohol.

我今年五十二了，我要向大家承认，我从来没有喝过一滴酒。

I don't say that because I think that's virtuous; I say that because there is power in identity.

这不是为了显派我多有道德，是为了说明自我定位的威力。

When we create the right kind of identity, we can say things to the world around us that they don't actually believe makes sense.

当我们决定了正确的定位，我们就可以让全世界接受他们本来想不到的事情。

We can get them to do things that they don't think they can do.

我们能让世界做他们本来觉得做不到的事情。

When I thought about my grandmother, of course she would think all her grandkids were special.

当我想到我的外婆，她当然觉得每个外孙都很特别。

My grandfather was in prison during prohibition. My male uncles died of alcohol-related diseases.

我的外公因为违了禁在蹲监狱，我不止一个舅舅死于和酗酒有关的疾病。

And these were the things she thought we needed to commit to.

这些原则都是我外婆相信我们应该坚持的。

Well I've been trying to say something about our criminal justice system.

我想向大家介绍的是我们的刑事执法系统。

This country is very different today than it was 40 years ago.

和四十年前比，这个国家变了很多。

In 1972, there were 300,000 people in jails and prisons. Today, there are 2.3 million.

在1972年，监狱里只有三十万人。今天，有两百三十万。

The United States now has the highest rate of incarceration in the world.

今天美国是世界上服刑人口比例最高的国家。

We have seven million people on probation and parole.

我们有七百万人在缓刑期和假释期。

And mass incarceration, in my judgment, has fundamentally changed our world.

在我看来，这样的大量判刑完全改变了我们的世界。

In poor communities, in communities of color there is this despair, there is this hopelessness, that is being shaped by these outcomes.

在贫穷的社区里，在有色人种社区里，充满了绝望，这样的绝望是由这些改变带来的。

One out of three black men between the ages of 18 and 30 is in jail, in prison, on probation or parole.

三分之一的黑人男性，十八岁到三十岁之间的，不是在监狱里，就是在缓刑期或者假释期。

In urban communities across this country -- Los Angeles, Philadelphia, Baltimore, Washington

在全国各处的城市社区里--洛杉矶，费城，巴尔的摩，华盛顿，

50 to 60 percent of all young men of color are in jail or prison or on probation or parole.

百分之五十到六十的有色人种的年轻人不是在监狱里，就是在缓刑期或者假释期。

Our system isn't just being shaped in these ways that seem to be distorting around race, they're also distorted by poverty.

我们的司法系统不仅是改变了，而是围绕着种族问题扭曲了，也围绕着贫困扭曲了。

We have a system of justice in this country that treats you much better if you're rich and guilty than if you're poor and innocent.

如果你是有罪的富人而不是无辜的穷人的话，这个国家的司法系统会对你特殊照顾。

Wealth, not culpability, shapes outcomes. And yet, we seem to be very comfortable.

财富，而不是过失本身决定了最终结果。可是，我们还挺自在的呢。

The politics of fear and anger have made us believe that these are problems that are not our problems. We've been disconnected.

玩弄恐惧和愤怒的政治手腕，说服了我们事不关己，高高挂起。

It's interesting to me. We're looking at some very interesting developments in our work.

我对这个很感兴趣。我们日常工作能看一些很有意思的变革。

My state of Alabama, like a number of states, actually permanently disenfranchises you if you have a criminal conviction.

我所在的阿拉巴马州，像很多其他州一样，如果你被判有罪，就终身剥夺你的政治权力。

Right now in Alabama 34 percent of the black male population has permanently lost the right to vote.

现在在阿拉巴马州，百分之三十四的黑人男性永远失去了投票权。

We're actually projecting in another 10 years the level of disenfranchisement will be as high as it's been since prior to the passage of the Voting Rights Act.

我们向前看十年，这个剥夺政治权利的比例将和投票权法案通过之前一样的高。

And there is this stunning silence.

可是没人提半个字。

I represent children. A lot of my clients are very young.

我代表孩子们上庭。很多我的被告都很年轻。

The United States is the only country in the world where we sentence 13-year-old children to die in prison.

美国是世界上唯一能将十三岁的孩子判成终身监禁的国家。

We have life imprisonment without parole for kids in this country.

我国对孩子判终身监禁，还不得假释。

And we're actually doing some litigation. The only country in the world.

我们其实现在就在帮这些人上诉。世界上独一份。

I represent people on death row. It's interesting, this question of the death penalty.

我也代理死刑犯的官司。死刑这件事很发人深省。

In many ways, we've been taught to think that the real question is, do people deserve to die for the crimes they've committed?

我们从各种渠道了解到 （死刑的）根本问题是，人该不该为他们犯的罪行偿命？

And that's a very sensible question. But there's another way of thinking about where we are in our identity.

这是个非常合理的问题。但是另一方面问题是我们的自我定位。

The other way of thinking about it is not, do people deserve to die for the crimes they commit, but do we deserve to kill? I mean, it's fascinating.

另一个想问题的方式，不是人们该不该为罪行偿命，而是我们配不配杀他们。我是说，这个问题非常震撼。

Death penalty in America is defined by error.

死刑在美国是常有差错的。

For every nine people who have been executed, we've actually identified one innocent person who's been exonerated and released from death row.

每九个被判死刑的人，有一个后来会被证明无罪被免死刑。

A kind of astonishing error rate -- one out of nine people innocent. I mean, it's fascinating.

这种错误率，九分之一的人完全无辜。我得说，非常震撼。

In aviation, we would never let people fly on airplanes if for every nine planes that took off one would crash.

学航空的人知道，如果每九架飞机里会有一架出事故，我们肯定是不会让这玩意儿载人飞的。

But somehow we can insulate ourselves from this problem.

但是莫名其妙地我们就能忽视死刑的问题。

It's not our problem. It's not our burden. It's not our struggle.

因为这不是我们自身的问题。这不是我们自身的麻烦。这不是我们自身的挣扎。

I talk a lot about these issues. I talk about race and this question of whether we deserve to kill.

我谈了很多问题。种族，还有我们配不配执行死刑。

And it's interesting, when I teach my students about African-American history, I tell them about slavery.

这很发人深省，当我教美国黑人历史的时候，我和学生讲奴隶制。

I tell them about terrorism, the era that began at the end of reconstruction that went on to World War II.

和他们讲恐怖主义，那个始于大复兴晚期，一直到二战时期的时代。

We don't really know very much about it. But for African-Americans in this country, that was an era defined by terror.

我们并不真的了解那段历史。但是对于这个国家的黑人来说，那是个白色恐怖时代。

In many communities, people had to worry about being lynched. They had to worry about being bombed.

在很多社区，人们害怕随时会被私刑处死。人们担心随时会被炸弹袭击。

It was the threat of terror that shaped their lives.

那个白色恐怖时代，改变了他们的生活。

And these older people come up to me now and they say, "Mr. Stevenson, you give talks, you make speeches,

那时的人现在上了年纪，来和我说，“史蒂文森先生，你到处演讲，

you tell people to stop saying we're dealing with terrorism for the first time in our nation's history after 9/11."

你得告诉大家，别说什么911以后是我们美国有史以来第一次对付恐怖主义。”

They tell me to say, "No, tell them that we grew up with that."

他们让我说：“我们就是在恐怖里长大的。”

And that era of terrorism, of course, was followed by segregation and decades of racial subordination and apartheid.

那个恐怖主义的时代，当然了，最后演变成了无法逾越的鸿沟，数十年的种族歧视和种族隔离。

And yet, we have in this country this dynamic where we really don't like to talk about our problems.

然而，我们这个国家不喜欢讨论存在的问题。

We don't like to talk about our history.

我们不喜欢讨论历史。

And because of that, we really haven't understood what it's meant to do the things we've done historically.

正因如此，我们不能真正理解我们有史以来做了什么。

We're constantly running into each other. We're constantly creating tensions and conflicts.

我们不停地产生冲突。不停地制造紧张气氛。

We have a hard time talking about race,

我们没法讨论种族问题，

and I believe it's because we are unwilling to commit ourselves to a process of truth and reconciliation.

我相信是因为我们不愿意正视一系列的事实，不愿意达成和解。

In South Africa, people understood that we couldn't overcome apartheid without a commitment to truth and reconciliation.

在南非，人们知道我们不能忘记种族隔离，除非我们诚实面对，达成和解。

In Rwanda, even after the genocide, there was this commitment, but in this country we haven't done that.

在卢旺达，即使种族灭绝后，人们还是正视了，但是在美国我们不愿意这么干。

I was giving some lectures in Germany about the death penalty.

我也在德国谈过死刑的问题。

It was fascinating because one of the scholars stood up after the presentation and said,

结果很绝妙，因为在讲谈后有个学者站起来说：

"Well you know it's deeply troubling to hear what you're talking about."

“你要知道，听你谈这个很痛心。”

She said, "We don't have the death penalty in Germany. And of course, we can never have the death penalty in Germany."

她说：“我们德国没有死刑。当然了，我们德国永远也不可能有死刑。”

And the room got very quiet, and this woman said,

全场肃静，这位女士说：

"There's no way, with our history, we could ever engage in the systematic killing of human beings.

“因为我们的历史，我们永不可能决定有系统地杀人。

It would be unconscionable for us to, in an intentional and deliberate way, set about executing people."

公开化且下意识地执行死刑，对我们来说，是良心上无法接受的。”

And I thought about that.

我思考了这个问题。

What would it feel like to be living in a world where the nation state of Germany was executing people,

如果我整天都看着德国人杀人，

especially if they were disproportionately Jewish? I couldn't bear it. It would be unconscionable.

毫无道理地屠杀犹太人，我会有什么感受？我无法忍受。那真是太不合理了。

And yet, in this country, in the states of the Old South,

但是，在我们这个国家，在南方各州，

we execute people -- where you're 11 times more likely to get the death penalty if the victim is white than if the victim is black,

我们真的在屠杀，当仅仅因为受害人是白人而不是黑人，你被判死刑的机率上升十倍时，

22 times more likely to get it if the defendant is black and the victim is white

当仅仅因为被告是黑人而不是白人，你被判死刑的机率上升二十一倍时，

in the very states where there are buried in the ground the bodies of people who were lynched. And yet, there is this disconnect.

在这些州，到处埋着被私刑处死的人。可是，我们还是漠不关心。

Well I believe that our identity is at risk.

我相信这说明我们有定位危机。

That when we actually don't care about these difficult things,

当我们对这些棘手的问题置之不顾时，

the positive and wonderful things are nonetheless implicated.

我们却仍旧对那些正面的好事儿一如既往地关心。

We love innovation. We love technology. We love creativity. We love entertainment.

我们爱极了革新。我们爱技术。我们爱创造。我们爱娱乐。

But ultimately, those realities are shadowed by suffering, abuse, degradation, marginalization.

但是最终，这些好的现实都被痛苦煎熬，滥用职权，剥夺人权，边缘化，蒙上了阴影。

And for me, it becomes necessary to integrate the two.

对于我来说两者合一是必要的。

Because ultimately we are talking about a need to be more hopeful,

因为最终我们谈的是怎么更有希望，

more committed, more dedicated to the basic challenges of living in a complex world.

更有保障，更有贡献，来应付生活在这个复杂社会中的种种挑战。

And for me that means spending time thinking and talking about the poor, the disadvantaged, those who will never get to TED.

对于我来说，那需要花时间思考和讨论穷人阶层，弱势群体，那些永远也没机会来TED的人。

But thinking about them in a way that is integrated in our own lives.

不过想着其实在某种意义上是把他们融合进我们的生活里。

You know ultimately, we all have to believe things we haven't seen. We do.

要知道最终，我们得相信那些没亲眼见的事。我们不得不。

As rational as we are, as committed to intellect as we are.

作为理智的社会，这么聪明的社会。

Innovation, creativity, development comes not from the ideas in our mind alone.

革新，创造，发展，并不仅仅在我们脑子里空想出来的。

They come from the ideas in our mind that are also fueled by some conviction in our heart.

它们是从我们脑子里的智慧和我们心里的信念相结合的产物。

And it's that mind-heart connection that I believe compels us to not just be attentive to all the bright and dazzly things, but also the dark and difficult things.

这个灵智合一，我相信会驱使我们不仅仅是对那些光明的事情更上心，同时对那些黑暗面和棘手的事情也是一样。

Vaclav Havel, the great Czech leader, talked about this.

韦克拉乌·哈韦尔，这位捷克的杰出领导人，谈过这个问题。

He said, "When we were in Eastern Europe and dealing with oppression, we wanted all kinds of things,

他说：“当我们在东欧解决强制压迫的问题时，我们希望能成就很多，

but mostly what we needed was hope, an orientation of the spirit, a willingness to sometimes be in hopeless places and be a witness."

但是最重要的，我们要一个希望，一个心灵的指向，一种不惮于体会绝望的态度，以及为史留证的意愿。”

Well that orientation of the spirit is very much at the core of what I believe even TED communities have to be engaged in.

这个心灵的指向，就是我的核心信念，我们的TED社会也要参与进来。

There is no disconnect around technology and design that will allow us to be fully human

这里不应有任何东西把高新的科技和完美的设计和我们的人性间隔开来，

until we pay attention to suffering, to poverty, to exclusion, to unfairness, to injustice.

只要我们还能注意到痛苦，注意到贫穷、制约、不公和冤屈。

Now I will warn you that this kind of identity is a much more challenging identity than ones that don't pay attention to this. It will get to you.

我想提醒大家，比起那些漠不关心的定位来说，这样的定位是很有挑战性的。它会影响你。

I had the great privilege, when I was a young lawyer, of meeting Rosa Parks.

当我还是个年轻律师的时候，我有幸见到了帕克斯夫人。

And Ms. Parks used to come back to Montgomery every now and then,

帕克斯夫人曾时不时会到蒙哥马利，

and she would get together with two of her dearest friends, these older women,

每次她都会和两个好友会面，两位上了年纪的女性，

Johnnie Carr who was the organizer of the Montgomery bus boycott -- amazing African-American woman

姜妮·卡尔，她是蒙哥马利公车抵制运动的组织者--非常出色的黑人女性，

and Virginia Durr, a white woman, whose husband, Clifford Durr, represented Dr. King.

还有弗吉尼亚·杜尔，一位白人女性，她丈夫克利福德·杜尔是马丁·路德·金的律师。

And these women would get together and just talk.

这些女士们经常聚在一起讨论问题。

And every now and then Ms. Carr would call me, and she'd say,

有时卡尔夫人会给我打电话，问我：

"Bryan, Ms. Parks is coming to town. We're going to get together and talk. Do you want to come over and listen?"

“布莱恩，帕克斯夫人回来了，我们要聚聚。你愿不愿意来听我们谈话？”

And I'd say, "Yes, Ma'am, I do." And she'd say, "Well what are you going to do when you get here?" I said, "I'm going to listen."

我会说：“当然，夫人，我愿意。”她会问：“你来这里具体干什么呀？”我会说：“我就想听听。”

And I'd go over there and I would, I would just listen. It would be so energizing and so empowering.

然后我会过去，只是倾听。这些聚会总是非常激动和鼓舞人心的。

And one time I was over there listening to these women talk, and after a couple of hours Ms. Parks turned to me and she said,

有一次我在那里听她们谈话，几小时后帕克斯夫人问我，她问：

"Now Bryan, tell me what the Equal Justice Initiative is. Tell me what you're trying to do."

“布莱恩，和我讲讲你的平等司法倡议。和我讲讲你打算做什么。”

And I began giving her my rap.

我就开始大讲特讲。

I said, "Well we're trying to challenge injustice.

我说：“我们想向不公正的待遇提出挑战。

We're trying to help people who have been wrongly convicted.

我们想帮那些被误判了刑的人。

We're trying to confront bias and discrimination in the administration of criminal justice.

我们想和在刑法制度里的偏见和歧视做对抗。

We're trying to end life without parole sentences for children.

给孩子被判终身无法假释的制度给终结掉。

We're trying to do something about the death penalty.

我们想为死刑制度做些改变。

We're trying to reduce the prison population. We're trying to end mass incarceration."

我们想减少监狱人口。我们还想杜绝过度泛滥的监禁。”

I gave her my whole rap, and when I finished she looked at me and she said, "Mmm mmm mmm."

我做了一个全本无删减的演讲，当我结束时，她盯着我说：“别别别。”

She said, "That's going to make you tired, tired, tired."

她说：“这些会让你很累，很累，很累的。”

And that's when Ms. Carr leaned forward, she put her finger in my face,

这时卡尔夫人凑过来，她把手放在我脸边说：

she said, "That's why you've got to be brave, brave, brave."

“这就是为什么你要很勇敢很勇敢很勇敢。”

And I actually believe that the TED community needs to be more courageous.

我确信TED这个社会需要更有胆量些。

We need to find ways to embrace these challenges, these problems, the suffering.

我们需要找到出路，来面对这些挑战，这些问题，这些痛苦。

Because ultimately, our humanity depends on everyone's humanity.

因为最终，我们的整体的人性取决于每个人的人性。

I've learned very simple things doing the work that I do. It's just taught me very simple things.

在我的工作中，我学到了非常简单的原则。

I've come to understand and to believe that each of us is more than the worst thing we've ever done.

我开始理解，开始相信，我们每一个人都不会被我们最坏的一面所定义。

I believe that for every person on the planet.

我相信，这适用于这个星球上的每一个人。

I think if somebody tells a lie, they're not just a liar.

如果他撒了个谎，并不说明他就是个骗子。

I think if somebody takes something that doesn't belong to them, they're not just a thief.

如果他拿了不属于他的东西，并不说明他就是个惯偷。

I think even if you kill someone, you're not just a killer.

甚至你杀了人，并不说明你就是个冷血杀手。

And because of that there's this basic human dignity that must be respected by law.

因为我相信人类有基本的尊严，法律必须尊重它。

I also believe that in many parts of this country, and certainly in many parts of this globe, that the opposite of poverty is not wealth.

我也相信，在我们国家的很多地方，当然甚至这个世界的很多地方，贫穷的反面，不是富裕。

I don't believe that. I actually think, in too many places, the opposite of poverty is justice.

我不相信这个。我认为，在很多很多地方，贫穷的反面，是公正。

And finally, I believe that, despite the fact that it is so dramatic and so beautiful and so inspiring and so stimulating,

最后，我相信，尽管（我们的科技和设计）很有声色，很美妙，很鼓动人心，也很刺激，

we will ultimately not be judged by our technology, we won't be judged by our design, we won't be judged by our intellect and reason.

但我们本身最终不会被科技所评价，也不会被设计所衡量，我们也不会被智慧和哲学来打分。

Ultimately, you judge the character of a society, not by how they treat their rich and the powerful and the privileged,

最终，人们会评价我们这个社会，不是根据我们怎么款待富人，有特权的人，

but by how they treat the poor, the condemned, the incarcerated.

而是根据我们怎么对待穷人，被谴责的人，被囚禁的人。

Because it's in that nexus that we actually begin to understand truly profound things about who we are.

因为正是在这个合流点，我们真正地开始对于我们是什么样的人有了深入的理解。

I sometimes get out of balance. I'll end with this story.

我常失去平衡。我想用个故事结束我的演讲。

I sometimes push too hard. I do get tired, as we all do.

我有时工作太多，很累，就像大家每个人一样。

Sometimes those ideas get ahead of our thinking in ways that are important.

有时这些想法太多而思考跟不上，结果是很严重的。

And I've been representing these kids who have been sentenced to do these very harsh sentences.

我曾经为这些孩子们辩护，他们被判了很重的刑。

And I go to the jail and I see my client who's 13 and 14, and he's been certified to stand trial as an adult.

我去管教所，看见我的被告都是十三四岁，他们被说成是成年人，作为成年人对待。

I start thinking, well, how did that happen? How can a judge turn you into something that you're not?

我开始想，到底是怎么一回事？一个法官，怎么能够把一个人判定成一个不同的人？

And the judge has certified him as an adult, but I see this kid.

这个法官说他是成年人，但我只看见一个孩子。

And I was up too late one night and I starting thinking,

一天晚上我彻夜难眠，开始想，

well gosh, if the judge can turn you into something that you're not, the judge must have magic power.

天哪，如果法官能把你写成另一个人，这个法官肯定有魔法。

Yeah, Bryan, the judge has some magic power. You should ask for some of that.

对了，布莱恩，这个法官有魔法，你可得学着点。

And because I was up too late, wasn't thinking real straight, I started working on a motion.

因为我睡得太晚，脑子不清楚，我开始做一个议案。

And I had a client who was 14 years old, a young, poor black kid.

我有个被告，十四岁，一个黑人小孩子。

And I started working on this motion, and the head of the motion was:

我开始做他的辩护，标题是：

"Motion to try my poor, 14-year-old black male client like a privileged, white 75-year-old corporate executive."

“提案：将我的十四岁的穷黑孩子，想成一个七十五岁的特级白人企业高管。”

And I put in my motion that there was prosecutorial misconduct and police misconduct and judicial misconduct.

在这个提案里，我说检察院，警察局和法庭都处理不当。

There was a crazy line in there about how there's no conduct in this county, it's all misconduct.

说这个法院没有合情合法这一说之类的疯话，全是故意乱判。

And the next morning, I woke up and I thought, now did I dream that crazy motion, or did I actually write it?

第二天早上我醒来回想，我是做了个梦呢，还是真的写了这个提案？

And to my horror, not only had I written it, but I had sent it to court.

恐怖的是，不光我真写了，我还寄给法院了。

A couple months went by, and I had just forgotten all about it.

几个月过去了，我全忘了有这么回事。

And I finally decided, oh gosh, I've got to go to the court and do this crazy case.

最后我决定，天哪，我得上庭去做这个案子。

And I got into my car and I was feeling really overwhelmed -- overwhelmed.

我跳上车，觉得很紧张--非常紧张。

And I got in my car and I went to this courthouse.

我上车开到法庭。

And I was thinking, this is going to be so difficult, so painful.

我在想，这将会是场硬仗，会很痛苦。

And I finally got out of the car and I started walking up to the courthouse.

最后我终于钻出车子，开始往法庭走。

And as I was walking up the steps of this courthouse, there was an older black man who was the janitor in this courthouse.

当我上台阶时，有个上了年纪的黑人老伯，他是法院的清洁工。

When this man saw me, he came over to me and he said, "Who are you?"

他看见我，跑过来问：“你是谁？”

I said, "I'm a lawyer." He said, "You're a lawyer?" I said, "Yes, sir."

我说：“我是律师。”他说：“你，是律师？”我说：“是的。先生。”

And this man came over to me and he hugged me. And he whispered in my ear.

这个老伯凑过来，给了我一个拥抱。他在我耳边低语。

He said, "I'm so proud of you." And I have to tell you, it was energizing.

他说：“我真为你骄傲。”我得和大家承认，这可给了我一针强心剂。

It connected deeply with something in me about identity,

他的话提醒了我心深处我的自我定位，

about the capacity of every person to contribute to a community, to a perspective that is hopeful.

提醒了我每个人都应该对社会，对更好的前景做出的贡献。

Well I went into the courtroom. And as soon as I walked inside, the judge saw me coming in.

所以我跑到法庭里。我一走进去，法官看见我就说：

He said, "Mr. Stevenson, did you write this crazy motion?"

“史蒂文森先生，是你写了这个疯案么？”

I said, "Yes, sir. I did." And we started arguing.

我说：“是的，先生，是我写的。”然后我们就开始辩论。

And people started coming in because they were just outraged. I had written these crazy things.

人们陆续跑进来，因为大家都愤怒了。我的确写了不少挺够劲的事情。

And police officers were coming in and assistant prosecutors and clerk workers.

警察也进来了，助理检察官也进来了，书记员也进来了。

And before I knew it, the courtroom was filled with people angry that we were talking about race,

我还没回过神来，整个法庭站满了人，全很愤怒，因为我们在谈种族问题，

that we were talking about poverty, that we were talking about inequality.

我们在谈贫穷，我们在谈不平等待遇。

And out of the corner of my eye, I could see this janitor pacing back and forth.

我眼角瞟到那个清洁工，在外面走来走去。

And he kept looking through the window, and he could hear all of this holler. He kept pacing back and forth.

他不断通过窗户向里张望，他也都能听到人们的抱怨。他就这样来回来去地走。

And finally, this older black man with this very worried look on his face came into the courtroom and sat down behind me, almost at counsel table.

最后，这个黑人老伯进来了，一脸担心地坐在我后面，几乎顶到了辩护台。

About 10 minutes later the judge said we would take a break.

十分钟后，法官提议休息一下。

And during the break there was a deputy sheriff who was offended that the janitor had come into court.

休息期间，一个副警长觉得清洁工进法庭有失面子，

And this deputy jumped up and he ran over to this older black man.

这个副警长跳起来，向这个老伯冲过去。

He said, "Jimmy, what are you doing in this courtroom?"

他说：“吉米，你来法庭里干什么？”

And this older black man stood up and he looked at that deputy and he looked at me and he said,

这个老黑人站起来，看看这个副警长，看看我，他说：

"I came into this courtroom to tell this young man, keep your eyes on the prize, hold on."

“我进来是想告诉这个年轻人，往前看，往好了看，挺住。”

I've come to TED because I believe that many of you understand that the moral arc of the universe is long, but it bends toward justice.

我今天来TED，是因为我相信这里很多人都明白，这个世界的道德的弧线尽管很长，但是永远向着公正的一边倾斜。

That we cannot be full evolved human beings until we care about human rights and basic dignity.

在我们开始关心人权和尊严之前，我们无法真正完成进化。

That all of our survival is tied to the survival of everyone.

我们的生存，和每一个人的生存都分不开。

That our visions of technology and design and entertainment and creativity have to be married with visions of humanity, compassion and justice.

我们在科技和设计上的前景，在娱乐和创造力上的眼光，必须与人性、慈善和公正的远见相结合。

And more than anything, for those of you who share that,

最重要的是，对于每个执着此见的人，

I've simply come to tell you to keep your eyes on the prize, hold on. Thank you very much.

我只想和你说，往前看，往好了看，挺住。谢谢大家。

So you heard and saw an obvious desire by this audience, this community, to help you on your way and to do something on this issue.

你应该听到看到这些听众，这个群体，想帮你、想做贡献的意愿了。

Other than writing a check, what could we do?

除了给你写支票，我们还能做什么？

Well there are opportunities all around us. If you live in the state of California, for example, there's a referendum coming up this spring

我们周遭有很多机会。比如，如果你在加州住，今年春天有个公投，

where actually there's going to be an effort to redirect some of the money we spend on the politics of punishment.

决定是否要重新分配一些我们原本花费在刑罚操作的经费。

For example, here in California we're going to spend one billion dollars on the death penalty in the next five years -- one billion dollars.

例如，在加州，未来五年内，我们将花十亿美元在死刑上十亿美元。

And yet, 46 percent of all homicide cases don't result in arrest.

然而，百分之四十六的杀人案件并没有逮捕到犯人。

56 percent of all rape cases don't result. So there's an opportunity to change that.

百分之五十六的强暴案没有破案。所以是有机会可以改变的。

And this referendum would propose having those dollars go to law enforcement and safety.

这个公投提议将这些金钱投入落实法律和安全。

And I think that opportunity exists all around us.

我想机会就存在于我们身边。

There's been this huge decline in crime in America over the last three decades.

在过去的三十年来，美国的犯罪率有显著的下降。

And part of the narrative of that is sometimes that it's about increased incarceration rates.

有部分的看法是这跟提高的监禁率有关。

What would you say to someone who believed that?

你会怎么跟持有这种看法的人解释？

Well actually the violent crime rate has remained relatively stable.

事实上，美国暴力犯罪的数字一直没有多大变动。

The great increase in mass incarceration in this country wasn't really in violent crime categories.

大量增加的服刑人口，并不是来自暴力犯罪。

It was this misguided war on drugs. That's where the dramatic increases have come in our prison population.

而主要是毒品犯罪。那是我们的监狱人口剧增的原因。

And we got carried away with the rhetoric of punishment.

我们被花俏的判刑名词冲昏了头。

And so we have three strikes laws that put people in prison forever for stealing a bicycle, for low-level property crimes,

例如我们用三振出局法严惩惯犯，将偷脚踏车或廉价物品的罪犯判终身监禁，

rather than making them give those resources back to the people who they victimized.

而不是让他们去弥补受害者。

I believe we need to do more to help people who are victimized by crime, not do less.

我相信我们需要做的是给予犯罪受害人更多帮助，不是只着重在严惩罪犯。

And I think our current punishment philosophy does nothing for no one.

我们现有的刑罚思考哲学对任何人都没有好处。

And I think that's the orientation that we have to change.

所以我认为这个大方向需要改变。

Bryan, you've struck a massive chord here. You're an inspiring person.

Bryan，你的演说动人心弦。你是个能激发人心的人。

Thank you so much for coming to TED. Thank you.

非常感谢你来到TED。谢谢。

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