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国际访谈|对话Facebook空间科学与制图总监Subbu Subramanian

慧天地国际站一鸣 慧天地 2021-09-20


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Subbu Subramanian先生是Facebook工程总监,也是该公司地图基础设施,地理空间数据科学团队的总负责人。九月的天气已拂去了夏日的闷热,偶尔会有清脆的鸟鸣与风声呼应。就是在这样一个午后,我与Subbu Subramanian总监开始了这次访谈,话题主要围绕Facebook的mapwith.ai项目来展开。GAFA(Google、Amazon、Facebook和Apple)是美国科技界的四大巨头,统治着美国乃至全世界的技术版图。Facebook作为世界上的科技巨头公司之一,他们推出的专业地图编辑服务和工具又会是什么样呢?

 

在访问开始前,我为Subbu Subramanian先生介绍了“慧天地”公众号以及国内一些新媒体的趋势。“慧天地”主要服务于测绘地理信息行业的公共、公益、公众平台,兼顾测绘地理信息和大数据、人工智能等领域的跨界融合。公众号是中国国内的一种新媒体形式,在信息传播,热点推送速度方面有着得天独厚的优势。Subbu Subramanian先生则表示,这种能快速传播并汇总信息的平台是一个很好的媒介,我们提供给他人的信息越多,就会吸引越多的人投入到这个领域来。他期望看到更多这样的信息。

 

经过初步的热身聊天和彼此熟悉后,我们正式开始了这次对话。

 图1:mapwith.ai界面图

(图片来源:mapwith.ai)

 

小慧:作为一家像Facebook这样的大公司,你如何看待开源社区,以及开放地理空间数据,特别是OSM的?

 

Subbu Subramanian:很高兴和大家分享我的想法。我目前领导Facebook的空间计算团队,Facebook一直非常信任开源领域,如果你上网查看,你会发现Facebook在开源项目和开源贡献方面是第一位的。你甚至可以查看“code.facebook.com/”是否开源。从技术上讲,我们也使用开源软件,比如Linux,Hack language。这只是一些例子,但其实应用程序非常庞大。

 

说到地图,Facebook到处都有地图,比如签到页面、页面、事件,大多会显示地图。数以亿计的地图印象每天都在发生。

 

小慧:这类地图的数据来源如何?Facebook是自己收集所有数据还是使用OSM?

 

Subbu Subramanian:很长一段时间以来,Facebook一直使用商业提供的数据,最后一个使用的是Here maps。然而,这样会出现两个问题:1.Facebook希望在全球范围内有更大的覆盖范围,因为Facebook的部分使命是连接世界上的每一个人。许多提供商无法提供Facebook想要的覆盖范围,他们大多是集中在发达国家和地区。但当你在坦桑尼亚或乌干达寻找道路或街道时,OpenStreetMap就会为你提供是一个很好的机会和途径。2.Facebook需要更多的灵活性和能力来适应其他事件的制图。许多地图提供商有自己的库和自己的SDK,而Facebook需要一个更灵活的平台和数据源,使Facebook可以在这个平台上建立我们自己的知识。

 

当然,虽然我们使用的数据来自于OpenStreetMap,但同时我们也意识到OpenStreetMap并不完整,还存在数据缺口,有时不准确。Facebook的一个小团队目前正在研究如何提高OpenStreetMap的覆盖率。

 

小慧:作为一家大公司,Facebook是否有雄心帮助开源数据社区弥补缺失部分的地图数据?

 

Subbu Subramanian:是的,我们在Facebook上执行的方式有两种:首先,我们使用卫星图像和先进的机器学习算法,比如CNN,通过人工智能和机器学习来识别道路或建筑物。其次是,Facebook提供其他人和社区可以使用的工具。Facebook使用机器学习和卫星图像来创建一个框架并鼓舞人们开始尝试人工智能制图(比如Map With AI),然后人们可以使用相同的数据和工具来开启地图绘制工作,并验证地图是否正确和精准,因为机器制图并不完美。通过这种方法,效率将显著提高,人们可以在同一时间绘制更多的街道。此外,Facebook还希望建立能够检测地图误用和滥用的验证工具,并将结果反馈OpenStreetMap社区。Facebook一贯支持和信任OpenStreetMap。

 

小慧:您如何看待,通过新媒体这一形式报道和推送地理空间产业和研究的最新进展的?

 

Subbu Subramanian:这当然是积极的影响,我们提供给他人的信息越多,就会吸引越多的人投入到这个领域来。例如,长期以来,地图会议一度是一个小型会议,而现在它变得越来越大,也越来越普及。

 

小慧:对于想投身地图行业和地理空间事业的年轻人,您有什么建议吗?

 

Subbu Subramanian:地图这一领域是很吸引人的,从本质上说,即使是小孩子也会被地图深深吸引。地图富含了很多信息,也显示了我们在世界上的位置信息。能在地图领域工作的人是很幸运的,因为这的确是个有意义的工作。地图和地理信息系统在自动驾驶以及世界未绘制地区的数字制图方面仍有巨大的潜力。

 

在这场访谈中,Subbu Subramanian先生与我分享了一些Facebook正在推进的项目和设想,也结合了一些生活上的趣事谈论制图领域的迷人之处。准确的地图对于城市规划和抢险救灾来说都非常重要。但在一些发展中国家,地图的缺失总会阻挡其发展的脚步,这是一个迫切的问题。现在,由于有了AI,人们拥有了一种更轻松的方法,可以在更短的时间内让地图覆盖更多区域。利用新技术实现更高效、准确的绘制不仅是Facebook团队的目标,从广义上讲,我想也会是很多制图人的愿景。


以下为英文部分原稿:

Q1: As a big company like Facebook, how do you think of open source communities and open geospatial data, especially OpenStreetMap?


Subbu Subramanian: Happy to share my thought. I support the spatial computing team in Facebook. Facebook always believes a lot in the open source, if you go and check online, you would find Facebook is the number one in terms of open source projects and open source contribution. You could check code.facebook.com/ is open source. Technically, we also work with open source software, like Linux, Hack language. This is only some examples, but the application is huge.


When it comes to maps, Facebook has maps everywhere, like pages in check-in, pages, events, mostly display maps. Billions of impression of maps are happening on a daily basis.


Q2: How about the data source of such maps? Is Facebook collecting all the data by yourself or using OSM? 


Subbu Subramanian: For a long time, Facebook used to use commercial providers, the last one used is Here maps. However, two problems comes up: 1. Facebook wants much bigger coverage crossing the world, because part of Facebook’s mission is to connect everybody in the world. Many providers could not provide the coverage Facebook wanted. Because most of them are focusing on the developed countries and areas. When you are looking for a road or street in Tanzania or Uganda, OpenStreetMap is a very good opportunity for such cases. 2. Facebook wants more flexibility and capability to suit the maps for other use cases. A lot of map providers have their own library and own SDK, while Facebook needs a more flexible platform and data source on which Facebook can built our own knowledge. 


Of course, we use the data from OSM, while we also aware of that OSM is not complete, there is also data gaps, inaccuracy. A small team in Facebook has been working on is how do we enhance coverage in OSM


Q3: As a big company, is that also the ambition of Facebook to help the community to cover the missing parts?


Subbu Subramanian: Yes, the way we do it in Facebook is two ways: first, we use satellite imagery and advanced machine learning algorithms like CNN to identify a road or building through AI and machine learning. Second thing Facebook is to provide the tools could be used by others and community. Facebook using machine learning and satellite imagery to create an outline and start people off (like Map With AI), then people could use the same data and tools to start mapping and verify if things are right and accurate, where the machine is not perfect. By this method, the efficiency would be significantly improved, people could map much more street in the same time. In addition, Facebook wants to build the vandalism tools that could detect map misusing and abusing and would give back to the OSM community. Facebook strongly believes in OSM. 


Q4: What do you think about new media like us to report the recent progress of geo-spatial industry and research?


Subbu Subramanian: Absolutely, the more we make it available to other, the more people and effort would be there. For a long time, State of the Map conference was once a small conference, while now it also grows bigger and more popular.


Q5: Do you have any suggestion for young generation who want to dive into the map professions and geo-spatial career and seek for a job in company such as Facebook?


Subbu Subramanian: Map is fascinating, fundamentally, it is amazing that even little children get attracted by maps, it gives our context. It shows our place in the world. People who could work on map for profession is blessed and lucky, since this is indeed meaningful jobs. There are still huge potential for Maps and GIS in autonomous driving and digital mappings of the missing part of the world. 


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