中美女主播跨洋辩论，16分钟完整视频出炉（含双语稿）
美国和中国近期因两国的贸易摩擦产生了很多话题。其中一个引人瞩目的事件为两国的两名电视主持人Trish Regan和刘欣的隔空交战并相约的电视直播辩论。视频背景刘欣和翠西·里根（Trish Regan）在社交媒体隔空舌战后，约定举行一场罕见的电视辩论。
福克斯商业频道（Fox Business）是特朗普最喜欢的一个新闻平台。中国国际电视台CGTN英语节目主持人刘欣在《欣视点》公开反驳了翠西·里根在节目中针对中国的观点。 在里根指责中国每年从美国窃取高达6000亿美元的知识产权后，刘欣指责里根鼓吹经济战争言论 。里根马上在节目中回应"中国正在发起一场针对美国的全面信息战，最新目标是我本人！"她也在推特上对刘欣发出挑战要来一场"关于trade的诚实辩论"。
刘欣回应说，我不想玩扔泥巴的游戏。她答应进行辩论。
经过一周的“隔空互怼”，我们终于在迎来了中国主播刘欣与Fox主播翠西·里根（Trish Regan）的“神仙辩论”。
这场辩论还未开始就已经吸引了中外媒体和民众的关注，大家想看看到底是刘欣能辩赢这场“鸿门宴”，还是翠西更胜一筹。辩论现场真的是硝烟四起，火药味十足。
从双方交锋的总体氛围观察，刘欣大气缜密，冷静睿智，对答如流，功底扎实。而翠西也没有咄咄逼人，有些求教于刘欣、问计于刘欣的姿态。不过从翠西的提问看，对中国的情况还是不够了解，对经贸等依然抱有偏见。
Fox评论员迈克皮尔兹伯里在事后专家点评时当场说：翠西，你这次没有发怒。他还说：中国人就是这么有礼貌，这是很难办的。
Trish:
Tonight I have a special guest joining me all the way from Beijing China, to discuss the challenges of trade between the US and her home country. She is the host of a prime-time, English-language television program overseen by the CCP（the Chinese Communist Party). And though she and I may not agree on everything, I believe this is actually a really unique opportunity, an opportunity to hear a very different view as these trade negotiations stall out. It's helpful to know how the Chinese Communist Party is thinking about trade and about the United States. In the interest of transparency, I should explain that I don't speak for anyone but myself as the host of a Fox Business show. My guest however is part of the CCP and that's fine as I said, I welcome different perspectives on this show, with all that in mind. I'm very pleased tonight to welcome is LiuXin host to the prime time opinion program the point with LiuXin to Trish Regan prime time tonight. Let's just quickly to the viewers. Please bear with us as we have a significant time delay in our satellites between Beijing in the US. Because of that, we're gonna do our very best not to speak over each other, but Shin welcome. It's good to have you here.
翠西：
今晚，一位来自中国北京的特别嘉宾将与我一起讨论美中贸易面临的挑战以及她的国家。她是一个由CCP监管的黄金时段英语电视节目的主持人。尽管她和我可能在某些问题上意见不一，但我认为这是一个非常难得的机会。在中美贸易谈判陷入僵局之际，我有机会听到截然不同的观点，了解CCP对中美贸易或者说对美国的看法是有帮助的。为了提高透明度，我应该解释一下，作为福克斯商业节目的主持人，我不代表任何人只代表我自己。今晚很高兴欢迎刘欣来到我的节目。请耐心等待，因为美国与中国通过卫星连接会稍有延迟。正因为如此，我们将尽我们最大的努力不谈论对方，欢迎刘欣，很高兴你能来！
Liu :
Thank you Trish, thank you Trish for having me. It's a great opportunity for me unprecedented I never dreamed that I would have this kind of opportunity to speak to you and to speak to many audiences in ordinary households in the United States. I need to correct because I am not...
刘欣：
非常感谢Trish，感谢你给我这次机会。从来没有想过能和你进行直接对话，同时也跟美国的普通民众进行对话。但我需要更正一下我并不是……
Trish:
Forgive me. You are not what?
翠西：
抱歉，你不是什么？
Liu :
Yep Trish, I have to get it straight. I am not a member of the Communist Party of China. This is on the record, so please don’t assume that I’m a member and I don’t speak for the Communist Party of China and I’m here today only speaking for myself as LiuXin, a journalist working for CGTN so well if anybody at least.
刘欣：
是的，翠西。我得说清楚，我不是CCP的一员，这是记录在册的。所以请不要以为我是CCP，我不会为CCP发言。今天我只作为刘欣发言，一个在CGTN工作的新闻工作者。
Trish:
Okay, appreciate it. Um... what’s your current assessment of where the trade talks actually are right now ? Give me your current assessment and where we are on these trade talks.Do you believe a deal is possible?
翠西：
好的，感谢。你可以评估一下中美两国在贸易战中的处境吗？你认为中美可能会达成某种协议吗？
Liu :
It is true that the satellite connection is not very good but I believe that you asking me where we are in terms of the trade negotiations. I don’t know. I don’t have any insider information. What I knew was the talks were not very successful last time they were going on in the United States and now I think both sides are considering what to go next, but I think China has made it, the Chinese government has made its position very clear that unless the United States treat the Chinese government treat the Chinese negotiating team with respect and show the willingness to talk without using outside pressure and there is high possibility that there could be a productive trade deal .Otherwise I think we might be facing a prolonged period of province for both sides.
刘欣：
我并不知道。我也没有内部消息。我所知道的是中美双方的上次对话并不成功。我认为双方都在考虑下一步该怎么走。我认为中国政府已经很明确的表示了希望美国可以尊重中国谈判团队，不要在外部施加压力。这样很有可能会达成一个富有成效的协议。如果美方不尊重对话，那么可能会造成旷日持久的矛盾。我认为贸易战不是件好事。
Trish:
And I would stress that trade wars are never good, they’re not good for anyone . So I want to believe Xin, I want to believe that something can get done and these are certainly challenging times I realized there’s a lot of rhetoric out there. But let me turn to one of the biggest issues and that’s intellectual property rights I mean fundamentally. I think we can all agree, it’s never right to take something that’s not yours and yet in going through so many of these cases, cases at the independent World Trade Organization the WTO, the China’s member of as well as the DOJ and FBI cases you can actually see some of them on the screen right now. There’s evidence there that China has stolen enormous amounts of intellectual property hundreds of billions of dollars worth now. You know that’s a lot of money but it’s really I guess we shouldn’t really care if it’s hundreds of billions of dollars or just 50 cents. How do American business operate in China if they’re at risk for having their property, their ideas, their hardwork stolen?
翠西：
我要强调的是，贸易战从来都不是好事，对任何人都没有好处。刘欣，我相信这件事是可以解决的，但就我现在看来这会是一段艰难时期。我们现在谈一谈最重要的问题，中美知识产权问题。我们都知道窃取别人的东西是不对的。中国是WTO的成员，FBI有很多证据证明中国从美国窃取了很多机密，涉及金额达到上千亿美元。你知道这是一大笔钱，但我想我们不应该关心它是数千亿美元还是仅仅50美分。如果美国企业在中国面临财产、创意和辛勤工作成果被窃取的风险，他们该如何经营？
Liu :
Well, I think Trish you have to ask American businesses whether they wanted to come to China, whether they find coming to China and cooperating with Chinese businesses has not been profitable or not and they will tell you the answers as far as I understand. Many American companies have been established in China and they’re very profitable and the great majority of them I believe plan to continue to invest in China and explore the Chinese market. Well now, US president Donald Trump’s tariff makes it a little bit more difficult it on certain I do not deny that there are IP infringement there are copyright issues or there are piracy or even theft of commercial, commercial secrets. I think that is something that has to be dealt with and I think the Chinese government and the Chinese people and me, as an individual I think there’s a consensus. Because without the protection of IP right nobody, no country, no individual can be stronger can develop itself. So I think that is a very clear consensus among the Chinese. You know, society and of course there are cases where individuals where companies go and steal and I think that’s a common practice probably in every part of the world .There are companies in the United States who sue each other all the time over infringement on IP rights and you can’t say simply because these cases are happening that America is stealing or China is stealing or the Chinese people are stealing and basically that’s the reason why I wrote that rebuttal because I think this kind of blanket statement is really not helpful, really not helpful.
刘欣：
翠西，我认为你应该询问美国商人是否愿意到中国投资，取得利润。我认为他们会给出答案。迄今为止据我所知，许多美国公司在中国获利很好，其中大部人愿意继续在美国进行投资。
现在，美国总统特朗普的行为使得这些投资行为变得有些困难，使得中美贸易的前景有些不确定。
我不否认版权有侵权，有任何版权问题或存在盗版甚至盗窃商业商业机密，我认为都是需要处理的事情。而且，我认为中国政府和中国人民以及我个人认为这是一个共识。因为如果没有版权保护，没有任何一个国家，没有个人可以变得强大，可以发展自己。所以我认为这是在中国人中非常明确的共识。
有些案例显示有个人和公司去偷窃。我认为这可能是世界各地的常见做法。然后，美国的公司一直看到对方因侵犯权利而互相侵犯。你不能简单地说因为这些案件正在发生，美国正在偷窃或中国正在偷窃，所有中国人都在偷窃，基本上这就是我写这个反驳的原因。因为我认为这种空白陈述真的没有用。
Trish:
Well, it’s not just a statement , it’s multiple reports including evidence from the WTO. But let me ask you about Huawei because that’s certainly in he headlines right.
翠西：
这个不仅仅是一个观点。这是基于多方面的报道，包括世贸组织的证据。让我来问问你关于“华为”的事，因为这肯定是头条新闻。
Liu：
Sure, I don’t deny those.
刘欣：
当然，我不否认这些。
Trish:
Right.I mean you know look I think as I said ,we can all agree that if you gonna do business with someone, it has to be based on trust and you don’t want anyone stealing your valuable information that you’ve spent decades working on .Anyway China passed a law in 2017, requiring tech companies to work with the military and the government. So it’s not just individual companies right that might be getting access to this technology. It’s the government itself which is an interesting nuance but I get that China is upset that Huawei’s not being welcomed into the US markets. I totally get it so let me just ask you this, it’s an interesting way to think about it I think what if we said, "Hey, you know sure while we come on in." But here’s the deal you must share all those incredible technological advances that you’ve been working on, you got to share it with us. Would that be okay?
翠西：
我不否认这些我们已知的事实。我们都同意必须基于信任的基础上和别人做生意。并且你不想让别人偷窃你花费了数十年创造的有价值的信息。无论如何，中国在2017年要求科技公司为军队和政府工作。所以这不是单单一个公司，这可能是获得这项技术的一个机会。这是一个细微的差别。但我理解美国市场不欢迎中国进入导致中国感到沮丧。
我认为我们可以这么想，你有一种方法进入我们的市场，你必须与我们分享你一直在研发的先进的尖端技术。你觉得这样可行吗？
Liu：
I think if it is through cooperation if it is through mutual learning if it is through if you pay for the use of this IP of this high technology. I think it’s absolutely fine. Why not we all prosper because we learn from each other.I learned English because I had American teachers. I learned English because I had American friends. I still learn how to do journalism because I have American copy editors so I think that’s fine as long as it is not illegal. I think everybody should do that and that’s how you get better. Right?
刘欣：
我认为如果这是基于合作的话。如果这是基于互相学习的话，如果这是基于你付钱使用这些高科技的话，我觉得这绝对可行。为什么不呢？我们互相学习互相进步。我从美国老师、美国朋友那里学习英语；我仍然从美国编辑那里学习新闻。只要合法，我认为这没错。我认为每个人都需要这么做，让自己变得更好。不是吗？
Trish:
You mentioned something pretty important which is that you should pay for the acquisition of that and you know look. I think that the liberalized economic world in which we live has valued intellectual property and it's governed by a set of laws, so we all need to kind of play by the rules and play by those laws if we're going to have that kind of trust between each other. But I think you bring up some good points, let me turn to China right now which is now the second largest economy, at what point will trying to decide to abandon its developing nation status and will stop borrowing from the world Bank?
翠西：
你提到了一些非常重要的东西，也就是我们应该为收购而付出资金。我认为我们所生活的世界是经济自由化，重视知识产权的。它是由一系列的法律控制的。所以，如果我们想要彼此之间有那种信任，我们都需要遵守规则，遵守法律。但是，我想你提出了一些很好的观点，现在让我来谈谈中国。 中国现在是世界第二大经济体。中国将在什么时候决定放弃发展中国家的地位?什么时候才能停止向世界银行借款？
Liu:
Well I think this kind of discussion is going on and I've heard very live discussions about this. Indeed there are people talking about China already becoming so big, why don't you just grow up basically. I think you said it in your program as well China grow up well. I think we want to grow up, we don't want to be you know too off tall or poor underdeveloped all the time, but it depends on how you define developing country right. If you look at China's overall size, the overall size of the Chinese economy yes we are very big, the world's number one but don't forget we have 1.4 billion people that is over three times the population of the United States, so if you divide the second largest overall economy in the world basically when it comes to down to per capita GDP, where I think less than 1/6 of that of the United States and even less than some other more developed countries in Europe, so you tell me where should we put ourselves .
This is a very complicated issue because per capita as I said is very small but overall it's very big so we can do a lot of big things and people are looking up looking upon us to do much more around the world, so I think we are doing that we're contributing to the United Nation, we're the world's biggest contributor to the UN peacekeeping missions and we are giving out donations and human humanitarian aids and all of that because we know we have to grow up and Trish thank you for that reminder .
刘欣：
是的，现在一直有人在讨论这个问题。我也听到了关于这个话题非常热烈的讨论。确实有人说中国已经变得如此之大，也有人问你为什么不承认你已经长大了。就像你在节目里也说过。中国是强大了，我们都想强大。但这取决于你如何定义发展中国家。对吧？如果你看中国的总体规模，中国经济的总体规模。没错，我们是一个大国，但别忘了我们有14亿人口。这是美国人口的三倍多。所以，如果你把世界第二大经济体划分为人均的GDP，我认为它还不到美国的六分之一，甚至不如欧洲一些比较发达的国家。所以你告诉我，我们应该把自己放在什么样的位置?
这是一个非常复杂的问题，我们的人均收入非常少，但GDP总量是非常大的，所以我们可以做很多大事。我们能在世界各地做更多的事情，我们也正在这样做，我们也正在为联合国事物作出贡献。我们是世界上对联合国人类维和任务贡献最大的国家。我们捐款和提供人道主义援助，因为我们知道我们必须成长。
Trish:
Let's get to the tariffs. I've seen some of your commentaries too and I appreciate that you think China could lower some of its tariffs. I watched you say that and I'm totally in agreement with you. In 2016 the average tariff effectively attacks that was changed on an American gun in China with 9.9% and that was nearly three times what the US was charging so what do you think about saying hey you know the heck with these tariffs, let's get rid of them altogether. Would that work ?
翠西：
下面我们来谈谈关税问题。我看过你的一些评论，我很感激你认为中国可以降低一些关税。我想说的是，我完全同意你的看法。2016年，中国对美国商品征收的平均关税实际上是9.9%，几乎是美国征收关税的三倍。这你怎么看？你怎么想？
Liu:
I think there would be a wonderful idea. I mean don't think for American consumers products from China would be even cheaper and for consumers in China products from America would be so much more so much cheaper too, I think there will be a wonderful idea I think we should work towards that. but you know you talked about rule-based assistent rule-based order. This is the thing if you want to change the rules it has to be done in mutual consensus. Basically we talk about tariffs it's not just between China and the United States and the United States I understand if you lower tariffs between just between China and the United States ,the Europeans will come, the Japanese will come, the Venezuelans probably will come and say hey we want the same therapy.
You can't discriminate you know between countries so it's a very complicated settlement to reach and the agreement that China and trade yes I'm talking about tariffs, and I think the last time when the world agree on the kind of tariff reduction China should commit to was exactly the result of multilateral and years of difficult negotiations the United States, so in its interest and decided to what degree the can agree or to what degree they can lower their tariffs nobody could have gotten at their head ,and China agree to although with some difficulties to lower their our tariff considerably it is all the decision of countries according to their own self-interests now things are different yes I agree 20 years later what are we going to maybe these old rules need to changed you know what let's talk about it bits let's do it according to the rules the same if. You don't like the rules will change the rules but again it has to be a multinational a multi-level.
刘欣：
我有一个不错的主意。你不认为对于美国消费者来说，来自中国的产品会更便宜吗? 对于在中国的消费者来说，来自美国的产品也会更便宜，不是更好？我觉得这是个很好的主意，我认为我们应该朝着这个方向努力。但是，你知道你说过要基于规则、基于顺序。如果你想改变规则，就必须在双方达成共识的情况下进行。基本上，我们谈论的关税不止是中国和美国之间的关税。我理解如果你降低中美之间的关税，那欧洲人、日本人、委内瑞拉人都会这样要求。
所以这很难达成共识。美国为了自己的利益可以决定他们能在多大程度上同意或者在多大程度上决定他们可以做些什么。没有人拿枪指着他们的头，这完全是各国根据自身利益作出的决定。
Trish:
yeah I just say you know you can go back to the trade agreement of 1974 section 3-1 there is a rule that enables the United States to use tariffs. To try and influence the behavior of China. Should it be taking stealing our intellectual property? I think in some ways as part of what this all comes back to and it's this sense of trust and I hear you on the force technology transfer and I think that some American bunnies perhaps have made some mistakes in terms of being willing to overlook what they might have to give up and then your term . But this is a issue I think where the country as a whole needs to step in and we're seeing the United States do that, perhaps in a way that hasn't happened I mean it's been in the background. Don't get me wrong I think previous administrations have identified the challenge but have really been a little bit unwilling to take it on so we're living in these very different times How do you define state capitalism?
翠西：
就像规则将会改变规则。但同样，它必须是多国的和多边的影响。是的，你可以回顾看1974年的贸易协定，第3-1章，有一条规则允许美国利用关税来尝试影响中国的行为。所以，你们是否窃取了我们的知识产权？我认为，在某种程度上，这也是回归到第一个问题。这是一种信任的问题。而且我听说你们在进行强制技术转让。我认为，一些美国公司可能犯了一些错误，他们忽视了短期内可能不得不放弃的东西。我想说的是，你知道，你们的经济体系很有趣。因为，我们是资本主义体系，对吧？但这是国家控制的。跟我们谈谈这个吧。你如何定义它?
Liu:
We would like to define it as socialism with Chinese characteristics, where market forces are expected to play the dominating or deciding role in the allocation of resources. Basically you know let the market it we want it to be a market economy but there are some Chinese characteristics, for example, some state-owned enterprises which play an important but smaller role maybe in the economy. and everybody thinks that china's economy is state-owned ,everything is state controlled, everything is state state state but let me tell you it is not ture picture if you look at the statistics for instance eighty percent of Chinese employees were employed by private enterprises ,eighty percent of Chinese exports were done by private companies were produced by private companies, about 65 percent of technological innovation were achieved were carried out by private enterprises, some of the largest companies that affect our life for instance some internet companies or some 5g technology companies they are private companies. We are a socialist economy with Chinese characteristics, but we are not just state controlled, we are quite mixed, very dynamic and very open as well.
刘欣：
我们要把中国特色社会主义定义为市场决定资源配置的社会主义。基本上你知道，让市场成为我们想要的市场经济，但是有一些中国特色。一些国有企业在经济中发挥着重要作用，但作用可能越来越小。但是，你们每个人都认为中国的经济是稳定发展的且一切都是国家控制的，一切都很稳定。但让我告诉你这不是真实的情况！如果你看一下数据，比如80%的中国员工受雇于私营企业。中国80%的出口是由私营企业完成的，而私营企业生产了这些产品。大约65%的技术创新是由私营企业完成的，而且这是一些影响我们生活最大的公司。例如一些互联网公司或者一些5g技术公司，它们是私营公司。所以，我们是有中国特色的社会主义经济，但并不是所有的事情都是国家控制的，国家运行的，不是这样的。我们实际上是相当混合和多样化的。我们让它充满活力，实际上我们国家也非常非常开放。
Trish
well I think we need to probably keep being open, I think that you know as a free trade person myself ,I think that is the direction to pursue and ultimately that leads to greater economic prosperity for you and better economic prosperity for us ,so then you get a win-win. Honestly this was interesting ,I appreciate you being here ,thank you .
翠西：
好吧，我想你应该保持开放的心态。我认为，你知道，作为一个自由贸易的人，我认为这是我们要追求的方向。最终，这将为你为我们带来更好的经济繁荣，我们也将获得双赢。老实说这很有意思，我很感谢你在这里，谢谢你。
Liu:
Thank you so much if you want to have discussions in the future we can do that if you want to come to China, you are welcomed and I will take you around . Thank you for the opportunity .
刘欣：
非常感谢你，如果你以后还想进一步讨论，我们可以再来一次，如果你想来中国，欢迎你，我会带你去逛逛，也谢谢你给我这次机会 。
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