荐场｜高处不胜寒？带你走入最亲和景观大师的时尚王国
今年美国景观建筑师年会ASLA PHL2018在费城的Convention举行，继AIA纽约年会之后，ArchiDogs作为官方合作媒体，再次受邀参加学术年会。近期，将为各位送上来自前线最真实的报道。
Ken Smith，世界上最著名的景观建筑师之一，致力于探索艺术、当代文化和景观之间的关系，创造景观特别是公园和其他公共空间，以改善城市生活质量。在ASLA期间，ArchiDogs特地采访Ken Smith，为大家分享Ken Smith的工作经历、设计实践以及教学的那些事。
采访团队 Interview Team |
Sherry Li 栗茜, CEO&Co-founder at ArchiDogs
Yiwei Huang 黄伊伟, PhD candidate at UC Davis
Haoyue Yang, MLA student at Texas A&M
Selyin, MLA student at PennDesign
编辑 Editor | Yihan 安琪
01/ Guest 人物素描
Ken Smith
Iowa State University
Harvard University Graduate School of Design
任教哈佛大学和纽约城市大学
纽约、加利福尼亚等注册景观建筑师
美国景观建筑师协会的研究员
ArchiDogs interview team
at ASLA PHL2018 with Ken Smith
02/ Working Experience
工作经历
Channel Gardens, Rockefeller Center, NYC
© Ken Smith Workshop
K: Ken Smith
A: ArchiDogs
A：我们的第一个问题关于您公司的名字“肯·史密斯工作坊（KEN SMITH WORKSHOP）”。您取名为工作坊（WORKSHOP）而不是工作室（STUDIO）或是其他术语，这其中有什么寓意？
A：Our first question is related to your office name “KEN SMITH WORKSHOP.” I notice it is called workshop, not a studio, or any other term. Any specific reason that you use the word “workshop”?
K：在我们的办公室，我们做的远不止是画图。叫做工作坊（workshop）是因为我们很多时候都会通过制作模型或是其他手工品来帮助我们理解所做的设计。如果是设计坡地，我们会把它等比画在墙上，这样一来就可以直观了解这个坡的样子。如果是设计坐具，我们也会把它做出来之后坐上去看看。这就是叫做工作坊（workshop）的原因。这不只是设计工作室，它实际上是我们设计的制造工坊和手工坊。
K：In our office, we've always done things more than just drawing. We call it workshop because we are always building models or crafts to help understanding what it is that we are designing. If we are designing a slope, we will actually draw the full-scale slope on the wall, so we can actually see what it looks like. And if we are designing furniture, we will build it in a full size and we can sit on it. And that's why it's a workshop. It is not a studio itself, it is actually about the fabrication, the craft, and the making of what we are doing.
interview with Ken Smith at ASLA PHL2018
A：在你们的网站上有三个关键词—景观，都市主义和艺术。可以简要说一下为什么选择这三个关键词么？
A：On your website, there are three categories – Landscape Architecture, Urbanism, and Art. Can you briefly talk about why you pick these three words?
K：首先，我们是景观设计师。其次，我们的绝大部分设计都是在城市环境中，正是我们在实践都市主义。艺术是因为我自身的背景，我认为我们的设计也是一种艺术形式。
K：First, we are landscape architects. Then we practice mostly in urban areas, so we are practicing urbanism. And art is because of my background, I think of what we do as an art form.
Croton Water Filtration Plant , The Bronx, NYC
© Ken Smith Workshop
A：下一个问题与您之前的工作经历有关。在您在纽约成立自己的工作室之前，您曾经与彼得·沃克和玛莎·施瓦茨一同工作过。您与他们一共工作是怎样的？
A：The next question is related to your previous working experience. You’ve been working with Peter Walker and Martha Schwartz before you opened your own office in New York City. How is the working experience with Martha and Peter?
K：那时我刚刚从学校毕业，那也是我第一次在私人工作室工作。在我读研究生之前，我曾在政府的公园部工作，我其实并不喜欢在政府工作。我想要加入一个私人工作室。所以，我很幸运地加入了彼得·沃克和玛莎·施瓦茨的工作室。他们的工作室非常繁忙也非常知名，所以我进步飞快。对于我而言，这是一个非常棒的经历，也是一个很棒的工作室。
K： At that time, I was right out of graduate school, and that is the first private design office I worked in. Because before graduate school, I was in government agency working for Parks Department, and I did not actually like working for government. I wanted to work in private office instead. So, I was lucky enough to get hired by Peter and Martha. It was a time when their office was very busy and very popular, so my learning curve is like a steep slope going up. For me, it is a great experience and a great place to be.
A：与他们工作的经历对于您有什么影响呢？您建议大学生或是年轻的设计师在很早的时候就成立自己的工作室么？还是应该先去其他公司工作？
A：What impact does this experience give you? Do you actually encourage college students or young designers to start their own business early? Or should they start with some other offices first?
K：我认为应该先去其他公司工作，这样你可以学习到公司是怎么运营的。就我自己的经验，彼得和玛莎的工作室环境非常开放，在我们工作时就会有客户进来。办公室有一个大房间，里有一个大桌子，彼得就会在那里给客户汇报。我们其他人都在假装工作（当然了），但是实际上我们都在默默学习如何汇报。而且，因为是一个小工作室，所以我学会了如何写合同和计算设计费，你可以真正学习到如何运营一个工作室。通过这样，几年之后你就可以掌握自己开设计室所必须的东西。如果没有这类经历，自己学习会更难。
K： I think you should work in another office first so that you learn how the office functions. So, in my experience working in the office, Peter and Martha's office was very open. We would work in the office while the client came in. There was a table in the in the big room where Peter presented to the client. While we were all pretending to be working (of course), but we actually learned how to do presentations. And it is a small office, so I learned about how to write contracts, and calculate design fees, and so you can really learn how to run an office. In this way, in a few years you learn the stuff that you will need to know for you to practice and having your own office. If you don’t have this kind of experience, it will be much harder to learn by yourself.
interview with Ken Smith at ASLA PHL2018
A：你对于选择小公司工作还是大公司工作有什么建议么？
A：Then what is your recommendations on choosing small office or big companies?
K：我从来没有在大公司工作过，所以也许我以下说的看法并不完全对。我觉得在大公司里，你大部分时间都是专门做一件事，也只会接触到某一流程。在小公司里，你会接触到全部的流程。大公司当然也有它的好处，你可以有机会接触到更复杂更大的项目，你会学习到我在小公司里没有机会学习的技能。所以，这取决于你自己的工作室想要做哪类项目。对于我来说，我想要设计明确的场地和庭院，所以小公司更适合我。
K：I have not worked in big firms, so I can be wrong. But I assume in big companies, most of the times you will be specialized, and doing kind of just one thing. And in the small office you end up being exposed to the whole range of stuff. The big office probably has its benefits, and you will have chances to work on much more complicated and bigger things, and you will probably learn the things I never learned in the small office. So, it probably depends on what kind of things you want to work on in your own office.To me, I wanted to work on in a very specific sites and gardens, so (small office works for me).
03/ Design Practice
设计实践
Orange County Great Park , Irvine, CA
© Ken Smith Workshop
A：谈到项目尺度，您的设计囊括了很多不同尺度。许多同学对于您小尺度的项目都很熟悉，但是在2005年，您为加州的橘县公园（Orange County Great Park, Irvine, CA）设计了总体规划。公园在分部建设中，儿童区和棕榈艺术区已建好。您可以分享其中设计大尺度公园的经验吗？您更喜欢哪种尺度？大尺度（总体规划）还是小尺度（花园，广场等）？
A：Mentioning about scale, your work includes various scales. As most students are familiar enough with your small-scale projects, starting from 2005, you began to work on Orange County Great Park Master Plan, Irvine, CA. It got built on phases, kids court and palm rock. Can you share your experience on this large-scale masterplan project to parks within it? Which scale do you prefer eventually? The big scale (master plan) or small scale (gardens, plazas, etc.)?
K：我喜欢两者混合起来。因为在小尺度下有些设计是无法实现的。同样，也有在小尺度下可以实现，大尺度设计中却做不了的设计。从大项目中我学到的是，大的公园总是会有更具策略性的框架和规划，但是在最后，还是需要一个个小设计填充整个框架。这很有意思。
K：I like the mix, actually, because there are things you can't do on a small project, and there are things that you can do in small projects, but you can't do in big projects. So, it is nice to have a mix, just in terms of developing a broader vocabulary. What I learned in a big project is that big parks always have strategic frameworks and strategic plans, but at the end of the day, it is still about the little parts inside of a bigger structure. So, that's kind of interesting.
interview with Ken Smith at ASLA PHL2018
A：根据我的经验，大尺度的规划更多的是关于简洁的布局，概念和出色的绘图，但是当你转换到小尺度设计时，完全是另外一回事。您是否有相似的情况呢？
A：Based on my experience, the big scale plan, it is more about neat layout, concept, and pretty drawings, but once you shift your scale and try to make it work in a small-scale site design, it is totally a different story. Do you have a similar situation?
K：当然，项目也会在你设计过程中不断改变。但是我认为有些策略上的概念十分重要，需要贯穿整个设计过程。我们做过一些地处纽约的项目，像是东河水岸项目（East River Waterfront）和克劳顿水库（Croton Reservoir）。两个项目都是从2005和2006年开始的。在设计过程中，市长换了，项目经理换了，甚至我的员工也换了。从某点来说，我是唯一一个从头参与到结束的人。所以，我的一个工作就是要始终记得整个项目是关于什么的。因为新的事情会发生，而在设计上，你就需要做出可以反映出总体概念灵魂的改变。这一过程中你很容易就会迷失方向。同样，文化在变，潮流也在变，从开始到现在已经有10年了，但你确实需要小心你设计的改变是否还是支持整个概念的。
K：Of course, the project evolves while you go. But I think there are some big strategic ideas that are important that you’ll try to keep them all the way through. We've been working on projects in New York City, like the East River Waterfront and the Croton Reservoir. Both project I've been working on since 2005 and 2006. And in the process, the mayor has changed, the project manager changed, even my staff have changed, and at some point, it feels like I'm the only person in the room who has been involved the whole project. So, part of our job is to remember what the project is about, because things happen, and you do have to make changes and you want to make the changes reflecting the spirit of what the bigger ideas it. It is too easy to get lost. Also, culture and fashion changes, and it has been 10 years you know, but you really need to be careful the things you changed are still supporting the bigger idea.
East River Waterfront Esplanade, NYC
© Ken Smith Workshop
A：这也引出了我关于文化改变方面的问题。我很赞同您关于每个人对同一抽象艺术都有不同的理解这一观点。当下，随着全球化和城市化发展，我们的城市比以前都要多元化。所以，您认为艺术和景观在当下的文化中应该处于何种位置？
A：That leads to my question on culture change. I appreciate your statement that people may project different interpreting the same abstract art. Today, under this age of globalization and urbanization, we are living in the cities where diversity is richer than ever. So how do you think art and landscape architecture should position themselves in today's culture?
K：我总是认为在像纽约这样多样化的城市中，你的设计是要有一些抽象手法的，因为这样每个人都可以把自己的理解带入其中。每个人对设计都有各自的解释。比如说，我们做过一个纪念项目。纪念项目很有意思，因为它在某种程度上必须非常具体，它们处理的关系非常特殊，（纪念的事件一般）是一个特定的灾难或者不幸。但是同时，也需要有抽象化的事物，因为参观者是不同的。所以，我认为具象设计和抽象设计并存是很有趣的，也是好的设计的关键。
K：Well I always thought that in a diverse city like New York, a certain amount of abstraction is necessary because everybody can bring their own ideas to it. Everyone has their own interpretations. One example, there is a time when we have to work on a memorial, and memorials are interesting, because it is at some level have to be very specific, since they're dealing with something very particular, a disaster or a tragedy. But at the same time, it has to have some abstractness in it because it has to speak to different audiences. So, I think that kind of specificity and abstractness is interesting and is a key to good design.
© Ken Smith Workshop
A：让每一个使用者都带入自身想法这一理论在街道家具上也适用么？我发现您的街道家具总是在考虑社会交际。
A：Does this theory also go with street furniture? I can also see that your street furniture always considers social interaction.
K：开放空间中的家具是可以改变最多的设计元素。整个广场是骨架，但是家具，甚至种植和其他的元素都是可以移动或改变位置的。同样，当下人们对于家具的想法同以前不同。现下很少固定家具，都是可移动的多功能家具。所以，我觉得室外家具和种植应该是可以改变的，可以回应使用者需求的，否则就不算真的实用。
K：The furniture in the open space is the most changeable things. The plaza is the bone structure, but the furniture, and even the plantings, and other things, those can shift and change. Also, the current generation thinks about furnishings a lot differently than previous generations I think. Furniture is less fixed now and it's multiple uses and isn't totally fixed. So, I would say, those furniture and plantings should be changeable and respond to people, otherwise it's not really very usable.
Pacific Coast Residence, Laguna Beach, CA
© Ken Smith Workshop
A：关于文化方面，您做过许多国际项目，也去世界各地学习了很多当地文化。您也曾表示您的很多设计都受到日本文化的影响。请问不同文化是如何影响您的？
A：Then in regarding to culture, you’ve also worked many projects internationally. Since your office is based in United States, and the people who perceive your work are in Korea, or Japan. How does your work adapt to different culture?
K：我从日本庭院中学到的并不是风格和外观，而是应用尺度。因为许多日本庭院空间都很小，如何让某一空间看起来更大是一个关键的概念，在很多庭院中都有体现。拿金阁寺来说，前湖中有尺寸很小的岛屿和剪形松树，它们神奇地让空间看起来比真实的更大，你甚至都没有察觉到。
K：What I learned from the Japanese garden, is not style or appearance, but it’s the manipulation of scale. Because lots of Japanese spaces are small, and then how you make something feel bigger is a concept or the key that can see in many gardens. Like the Kinkakuji or the “Golden Pavilion”. The lake in the front has islands that are sculpted quite small, the pruned minature pine trees, they make the scale in an amazing way and it makes it seem much bigger than the reality, and you don't really know.
我认为这个方法是普遍适用的。在纽约也适用，因为纽约总是有很多小的空间，因而当我在做纽约市的项目时，我总是用设计日本庭院的方法。但是我并没有做任何和日本庭院像的设计。它看起来还是很纽约。所以我认为，学习文化你需要知道它是如何“运作”的，核心是什么，这才是学习的重点。
And this is something to me that works universally. This method can also work in New York City because we have lots of little tiny spaces and so I always draw the on the Japanese gardens when I'm thinking about things in New York City, but I'm not designing anything looks like a Japanese garden. It still looks very New York. So, I would say, by studying the culture, you need to know what is it that “operate”, what is the core of it, that is important to learn.
04/ Teaching at Harvard and CUNY
任教于哈佛大学和纽约城市大学
A：您可以分享一些您的教学经验么？您现在还在哈佛大学和纽约城市大学任教么？
A：Can you talk a little bit about your teaching experience? Currently you are teaching both in both Harvard GSD and City University of New York?
K：是的，首先我想说的是，学生总并不认为在设计课上教授学习到的东西和学生学到的一样多。但有些时候，教授带到课堂上的是问题是他们本身很感兴趣并想去探究的，所以学生的设计实际上是一种解决问题的方式，并且帮助教授们更好地去理解这些问题。所以，学生在这一过程中学习，教授也是。现下，大多数的设计课都是由一个个问题组成的，但是我总是会鼓励学生遵从自己的想法去做设计，这样每一个设计都是各异的。
K：Yes, so the first thing I would like to say is that students don’t always appreciate that the professors learn as much as the students do. In some ways, the professors take in to the class some problems that interest them that they're trying to understand, and the in the student work is actually a way of working through some issues and helps them understand it better. So, the students learn from that process, but the professors also learn as well. The studio method is interesting. Today, most studios formed by what the problem is, but I always encourage students to do something with their own ideas so that every work express them differently.
East River Waterfront Esplanade, NYC
© Ken Smith Workshop
A：在教学中，您会把您的实际项目作为设计课的设计项目么？
A：During your teaching, will you use your project site to become their studio site?
K：基本上不会。我倾向于不用我正在进行的真实项目。多年来，我们一直在处理城市中废弃或是残留的空间，像是高速公路立交桥下的奇怪空间，很多时候，这都是你需要解决的问题。同样，在学校设计课上，我会有平行题目。就像我在哈佛大学的上一个设计课，我带来的课题是关于时装设计。有趣的是时装可以传达特性，时装通过将不同的面料组合在一起来传递想法。但是同样也具有功能性，它必须要保证温暖，你的四肢可以灵活移动。因此，这会让你以不同的方式来思考景观设计。
K：Basically not. I tend to not use a real site that I have been dealing with. Over the years we've been dealing with disused and leftover spaces in the city, weird space like space under highways, and those are typical problems that you have to deal with in the time. Also, during the studio, I often have some parallel things. Like the last studio I taught at Harvard, it was looking at Fashion Design. What it is interesting is that fashion expresses identity, and fashion is expresses a lot of ideas in terms of how to put different materials together. But it also about functionality because it has to keep the body warm, makes your legs and arms movable. So, it makes you think of landscape architecture differently.
A：所以最后的设计成品是什么样的呢？是一个景观项目还是一个时装项目？
A：So how is the final result of the studio looks like? Does it more like a landscape architecture project, or more of a fashion project?
K：我想你可以实现两者。这门设计课旨在利用艺术和小品在景观设计领域中解决城市问题。同样，时装秀上，衣服也有不同的用途。白天穿的，晚上穿的，饰品，帽子和鞋履。但都需要有一个可以凝聚它们的概念使其成为系列。之后，有趣的事情就是重新思考景观设计元素，你同样有坐具，种植和铺装。就像设计夹克、裤子或是手套，你同样也有相似的设计元素。有趣的就是两者是相关的。
K：I think you can achieve both. The studio itself is more about using art and installation to solve urban problems, in the landscape architecture realm. At the same time, I think of in the fashion show, garments are for different uses. Day wear, evening wears, accessories, hats, and shoes. But it always has a cohesive idea to hold it all together. And I thought that would be an interesting way of thinking about design the vocabulary for a landscape because you know you have seating, plantings, and paving. You have all kinds of design elements that the same way you are designing a jacket, or pant, or a glove. I think it's still an interesting idea and it's relevant.
所以，他们最后的成品依然是一个景观项目，但我是想鼓励他们用不同的角度看待景观设计。因为现在去网上搜索一个图片，抄下来再组合组合太容易了。先站在外面思考再找到一个不同方式去思考场地，这是一个很好的方法。这就是这门设计课的关键，学生们也很享受整个设计过程。
So, their final project is still a landscape project, but I would encourage them to think landscape differently. Because it's too easy to go under image search and copy and put stuff together. This is a good way to think outside of that and find a way to think of your site differently. That was the idea, and I think the students enjoyed it.
Atrium Garden, NYC © Ken Smith Workshop
A：我们的许多受众都是建筑、景观和设计相关专业的学生。您有什么建议可以让他们在学校中学的更好吗？
A：Many of our audiences are college students majoring in architecture, landscape architecture, and design related fields. What will you suggest them to learn better at school?
K：我最近刚刚讨论过这个问题。现在设计学院的课程安排都非常满。你有太多东西都要学习，进而你有越来越多的课要上。我认为有一些选修课是非常重要的，你可以选择课表外的课，那些与你兴趣点相同的课。
K：I've actually had this discussion recently. The current curriculum design in schools is very tight. There are so much things you need to learn, and you tend to get more and more classes. I think it is important that you can have some electives, that you can choose to participate in some courses that are not in your curriculum, something that suits your interest.
我还建议学生们在设计遇到瓶颈的时候可以离开他们的电脑，去做一些其他的事情。就比如我，我会去美术馆，或是回家做饭，我想的其他事情可能会带给我新的灵感。如果你就在电脑前绞尽脑汁，你并不会有什么收获。但是当你离开去做其他事时，想法会自己找到你。
And I would also suggest them to leave their computer and do something else if they are stressed and get stuck on their work. Like for me, I go to art galleries, or I go back and cook, then I start to think of something else and I may get some new inspirations. If you are staring at your computer, you are not really advancing it. When you get up and do something else, the idea may come to find you.
Orange County Great Park: Palm Court
© Ken Smith Workshop
A：这个问题是为年轻的设计师问的。既然您有了自己的工作室，当您聘请入门级设计师时，您会考虑哪些资质？
A：The next question will be about young designers. Since you have your own workshop, when you hire an entry-level designer, what qualifications are you looking for?
K：首先，我们在寻找聪明又负有抱负的人。另一方面，他们还需要具备设计技能。你需要很好的电脑绘图技能来证明你的生产力。而其他的设计之外的技能你终会在工作室内学到的。
K：For the first, we look for people who are smart and ambitious. At another level, they must have skills. You need to have good computer skills indicating you can produce stuff. And the other skills you will learn eventually in office.
我们是一个小的工作室，所以我们并不会经常招聘。但是当有招聘机会时，我们会浏览所有的申请表和作品集，之后邀请他们来公司面试。我们想要找到真正适合我们工作室的设计师。
We are a small office and we don’t hire very often. But when we do have opportunities, we will lay out people’s application forms and portfolios, and invite them to office and talk. We want to look for someone who can fit in our office.
A：您想过有一天来中国工作么？
A：Have you ever thought of working in China?
K：当然，我很希望可以去中国工作！那会非常棒！在我的工作室里有两个中国员工，如果我们可以真的在中国工作，那会很有趣。
K：Oh, I would love to work in China! It will be terrific! I have two Chinese employees in my office, and it will be fun if we can really work in China!
采访团队 Interview Team |
Sherry Li 栗茜, CEO&Co-founder at ArchiDogs
Yiwei Huang 黄伊伟, PhD candidate at UC Davis
Haoyue Yang, MLA student at Texas A&M
Selyin, MLA student at PennDesign
编辑 Editor | Yihan 安琪
版权声明
版权归作者所有，
如需转载请联系ArchiDogs或作者获得授权
THE END
推荐阅读