专访Camille M. Ng —— 从顶尖美所到国际仲裁机构
本栏目为律行舍的固定的采访栏目，律行舍相信，即使不是顶尖法学院的学生，即使没有在职业初期进入顶尖机构，也可以走出属于自己的法律职业发展道路。所以，律行舍将不定期采访背景“普通”，但却奋斗在律所、国际组织、跨国公司的法律人，向读者展现法律职业发展的多样性。
本期采访人为Camille M. Ng。在她十年的法律生涯中，她先后在顶尖美所芝加哥办公室、顶尖新加坡律所、海牙常设仲裁法院及国际商会国际仲裁院工作。她每一段职业经历，都是无数法律学子所向往的。我们有幸能够采访到她，聆听她对于法律职业发展的建议。
Please introduce your background.
请简要介绍您的背景。
I am a Filipino, born and raised in the Philippines. Over there, a law degree is an advanced degree just like in the US, so you need a bachelor degree. I have one in management. During my undergrad, I joined the debating team of our school, and I also like writing. That’s what made me think about working in the legal industry.
我是菲律宾人，在菲律宾出生和长大。在菲律宾，法律学位和在美国一样都是进阶学位，所以你需要先有学士学位才能学法律。我的本科是学管理学的。本科期间，我参加了学校的辩论队，我也喜欢写作。所以，我开始思考进入法律行业工作的可能性。
After undergrad, I joined one of the best advertising firms in the Philippines, and my clients included many prestigious international companies. In that field, I got the chance to present our ads before the advertising board because we needed to make sure that the content we put in the advertisements meets the board’s standards. The desire to study law became stronger as I did this type of work.
本科毕业后，我加入了菲律宾最好的广告公司之一，我服务的客户包括许多著名的国际公司。在广告领域工作的时候，我有机会在广告协会前展示我们的广告，因为我们需要确保广告内容符合广告协会的标准。当我从事这类工作时，我想要学习法律的愿望变得更强烈了。
Therefore, I decided to apply to law school. I got admitted to law schools in the Philippines, but ultimately decided to study at the University of Notre Dame because of their international law program and their scholarship offer.
因此，我决定申请法学院。我被菲律宾的法学院录取了。但是，受圣母大学国际法项目的以及他们奖学金的吸引，我最终还是决定去圣母大学学习。
During my JD, I was lucky to work as a summer associate in Kirkland & Ellis’ Chicago office. I joined them as a litigation associate after graduation. I worked as a litigation attorney, and dealt with mostly US domestic matters. There were not many international lawyers in the office. I worked there for close to two years and I liked the job. The colleagues were friendly and supportive, and the atmosphere was nice. But I also felt that I would prefer to be in a more international field.
在JD期间，我有幸在 Kirkland& Ellis（“Kirkland”）的芝加哥办公室做Summer Associate。而毕业后，我以诉讼律师的身份加入Kirkland。作为诉讼律师，我主要执业于美国国内的法律事务。办公室里的国际律师不多。我在那里工作了将近两年，而且我也喜欢这份工作。同事们都很友好和并且相互帮助，办公室氛围也很好。但我觉得，我更想进入一个更国际化的领域工作。
So then I applied for the joint LLM program of NYU and NUS, which focuses on international law. I took my courses in Singapore, with faculty from both schools. During the latter part of the program, an attorney working at the Permanent Court of Arbitration (“PCA”) gave a presentation about the newly launched PCA-NUS fellowship program, which would allow the successful candidate to work in the PCA in The Hague for one year. I applied for and was selected for the fellowship. In the meantime, Mr Michael Hwang (a prestigious Singaporean arbitrator) invited me to join his chambers for half a year. The schedule worked out perfectly – I was able to work for Mr. Hwang and then the PCA. I gratefully accepted these two offers.
于是我申请了纽约大学和新加坡国立大学的联合LLM项目，该项目着重于国际法的学习。我在新加坡上课，但两所学校都会派老师来进行教学。在项目的后半部分，在海牙常设仲裁法院（“PCA”）工作的一名律师给我们介绍了新启动的PCA-NUS奖学金项目，该方案可以让奖学金获得者在PCA工作一年。我申请了项目并幸运地被选上。与此同时，Michael Hwang先生（著名新加坡仲裁员）邀请我加入他的律所，在他那里工作半年。于是，我幸运地有了两个毕业去向——我可以先为Michael Hwang先生工作，然后再去 PCA。我感激地接受了这两个offer。
After my one-year fellowship in the PCA concluded, I ended up staying in the PCA for a year and a half more. And then, I joined the ICC Court of Arbitration (“ICC”) and now work as deputy counsel in ICC’s New York office.
当我在PCA一年的奖学金项目结束后，我被 PCA聘用为正式员工，又在PCA工作了一年半多一点。然后，我加入了国际商会国际仲裁院(“ICC”)，现在 ICC纽约办公室担任副顾问。
You have worked in different legal markets – Chicago, Singapore, The Hague, and NewYork City. What do you think is the difference between these markets?
您曾在芝加哥、新加坡、海牙和纽约等不同的法律市场工作过，你认为这几个市场有何不同?
It depends on the field. In Chicago, the environment at least in the litigation department was very “domestic” as in US-related. Things are very different in international arbitration. My colleagues are attorneys from different jurisdictions and my caseload comes from all over the world. Because I was working in international arbitration in Singapore, The Hague, and still now in New York City, I can say that the environment seems familiar wherever in the world you go.
这非常取决于工作的领域。在芝加哥，至少在诉讼部门，业务氛围是非常面向美国国内的。但国际仲裁中，情况却大不相同。我的同事都是来自不同法域的律师，我手上的案件也来自世界各地。因为我曾在新加坡、海牙，并且目前在纽约从事国际仲裁工作，我可以说，如果你在国际仲裁领域工作，无论你到哪里，业务氛围都是非常相近的。
Do you have any advice you want to share with candidates who are looking for jobs?
你有什么建议想和正在找工作的应聘者分享吗?
I will just speak very generally, as more detailed advice is readily accessible otherwise. As a law student, I think studying hard should be a priority. When you approach employers, you should have something to sell, and how you are in law school is a huge plus. I know that the job market is becoming more competitive, and students are racing to secure jobs. But networking at the expense of doing your work as a student is really not a good idea. And besides, studying is a pleasure often taken for granted.
我就说一些大体的建议吧，因为你们可以从其他地方得到更详细的建议。作为法学生，我认为应该把努力学习放在第一位。当你与雇主接触时，你应该有自己的“卖点“，而你在法学院的表现是一个巨大的优势。我知道就业市场的竞争越来越激烈，学生们都争先恐后地找工作。但是，以牺牲学业为代价来进行社交实在不是一个好主意。此外，学习本就应被视为一种乐趣。
As people network, I think they should ask themselves, “would I feel comfortable if someone talks with me in an aggressive way?”, or “will I give opportunities to someone just because I met them once or twice?”. I guess most people will answer no, without more.
当大家在社交的时候，我认为大家应该先问问自己，“如果有人以一种非常aggressive的方式和我说话，我会感到舒服吗?” 或者 “我会仅仅因为见过他们一两次就给他们机会吗?” 我想大多数人会回答不，并且就此打住。
So going off of that, I think that quality in networking is better than quantity. Rather than run around the room just to get the business cards of 10 different people, why not just have a genuine conversation with half that, and then may be spend some time and effort to develop the relationship? This means also thinking about what you can do for them. For example, when I came across some informative articles or news releases, I may send them to people I know who would be interested in such information.
因此，抛开这些来谈，我认为社交应该追求质量而非数量。与其为了得到10个不同的人的名片而在会场中到处交谈，倒不如只和5个人进行一次真诚的对话，然后花点时间和精力来发展这种关系。同时，你也要考虑你能为他们做些什么（而不仅仅是他们能为你做什么）。例如，当我看到一些有用的文章或新闻，我可能会把它们发送给我认识的会对这些信息感兴趣的人。
And the last thing is to be considerate. The people you are networking with may also want to network with others, so do not be offended if they cut the conversation off after a while and also try not to occupy too much of their time.
最后是要设身处地为他人着想。你想要社交的人可能也想社交其他人，所以如果他们在聊了一会之后就打断了谈话，不要觉得自己被冒犯了。另外，也尽量不要占用他们太多的时间。
Very useful suggestions for networking. What other suggestions you may have for maintaining relationships?
非常有用的社交建议。对于维持人际关系，你还有什么建议?
Be honest to people who give you opportunities. When you get a very good job offer but it later turns out that you are unable to accept that offer, be honest about why. The world is very small. Never burn your bridges.
对给你机会的人要诚实。当你得到一个非常好的工作机会，但后来发现你不能接受这个机会时，要诚实地告诉对方你不能接受的原因。世界是很小的，不诚信可能会自断后路。
Do you have any other suggestions for career developments?你对职业发展还有什么建议吗?
Very generally again, be open to what life reveals to you. It’s good to have a plan, but it’s also good to be flexible in case your plans don’t pan out and life doesn’t give you exactly what you want. Whenever that happens to me, I always think of it as me being led to something that will be better for me. Also, know that it’s okay to make a change and to switch gears. Having a career in a specific field does not have to be a life-long commitment. So, in short, work hard and keep the faith. You’ll be okay.
同样是非常宽泛的建议——对生活给你的机遇或挑战要保持开放的态度。有计划当然是好的，但是如果你的计划没能实现，要懂得保持灵活变通，因为很多时候生活并不如你所愿。当生活不如意时，我总是在想，它肯定会把我引领到对我更好的东西上。同时，生活不是一成不变的，换一种人生道路也未尝不可。人并不是说在某一领域工作，就要一辈子从事该领域。所以，简而言之，努力工作，保持对生活的信念。一切会好起来的。
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