【高端访谈】王景荣： “一带一路”倡议使中国在全球舞台上更加活跃
第二届“一带一路”国际合作高峰论坛已于昨日闭幕。论坛期间，中国与各方进一步凝聚了共识，明确了“一带一路”倡议未来方向。
The second Belt and Road Forum for International Cooperation has concluded yesterday. The forum has offered an opportunity to consider, deliberate and determine the future of the initiative.
China Focus以“一带一路”为主题，推出一系列海外知名人物高端访谈，今天推出对东盟前秘书长、南洋理工大学拉惹勒南国际关系学院执行副主席、国防与战略研究院院长王景荣的专访。
With the theme of Belt and Road construction, China Focus has launched a series of high-profile overseas interviews. Today we have an exclusive interview with Ong Keng Yong, former Secretary-General of ASEAN, RSIS Executive Deputy Chairman, IDSS President.
访谈对象：王景荣，东盟前秘书长、南洋理工大学拉惹勒南国际关系学院执行副主席、国防与战略研究院院长
访谈人员：薛力，中国社会科学院世界经济与政治研究所研究员
时间：2018年7月12日
地点：新加坡南洋理工大学拉惹勒南国际关系学院
Interviewee: Ong Keng Yong, former Secretary-General of ASEAN, RSIS Executive Deputy Chairman, IDSS President
Interviewer: Xue Li, research fellow, Institute of World Economics and Politics, Chinese Academy of Social Sciences
Date: July 12, 2018
Location: S. Rajaratnam School of International Studies, Nanyang Technological University, Singapore
China Focus: 您如何评价“一带一路”倡议？
China Focus: How do you evaluate the Belt and Road Initiative?
王景荣：我个人认为，许多国家需要“一带一路”，因为基础设施和连通性都很缺乏。这一倡议使人们期望获得更多的基础设施和连通性，并且相对于世界银行、亚洲开发银行更有优势。同时中国还建立了亚投行。这是很大的优势。
Ong Keng Yong: Personally, I believe that many countries need Belt and Road Initiative as they lack infrastructure and connectivity. The initiative has led to expectations of more infrastructure and connectivity, whilst presenting more advantages than the World Bank and the Asian Development Bank. China has also established the greatly advantageous Asian Infrastructure Investment Bank.
但是，中国需要制定一些计划。如果你修建一条北京到新疆的铁路，很多人从北京到新疆，但没有人员和商品返回，那么你可以通过在新疆设立工厂来解决这一问题，毕竟这是在国内。但如果跨界到其他国家如哈萨克斯坦，你会发现你将中国商品卖给哈萨克斯坦，但可能没有任何东西从哈萨克斯坦流向中国。中国应对项目收益更加关注，提前制定计划十分有必要。
China needs to make plans, however. If you construct a railway bringing multitudes and goods from Beijing to Xinjiang (the Uygur autonomous region in the northwest) but see no corresponding return, you may solve this concern via installing factories throughout Xinjiang because this is a domestic project. However, if you step abroad to a place like Kazakhstan you will find that though you are selling Chinese goods there, not much is flowing back. China should pay more attention to its returns when engaging in such projects, and it is necessary to make plans ahead of schedule.
经过五年后，很多问题都得到了解决。人们认识到这是一项认真的倡议，现在中国对“一带一路”及其实施有更好的理解和管理。
Many problems have been solved over the last five years. As people realize that the Belt and Road Initiative is more than ambition, they shall undertake its management and comprehension more effectively.
China Focus: 习近平主席将“一带一路”称为“世纪工程”，这意味着需要推进“一带一路”的可持续发展，在您看来，在“一带一路”建设的可持续性方面有什么问题？该如何解决？
China Focus: President Xi Jinping referred to the "Belt and Road" as a "Century Project," which means that it is necessary to promote the sustainable development of the initiative. In your opinion, what problems that exist in the sustainability of Belt and Road construction? How can they be solved?
王景荣：我认为“一带一路”是可持续的“世纪工程”。可持续性有两个重要维度。资金和资源方面的可持续性不是问题，中国会想办法寻求资金实施项目。另一个维度是项目和投资所在国民众是否会接受。你可以建造一条马路，通向港口并且外观漂亮，但如果没人使用，它就难以获利。现在的问题就是需要规划好谁会使用它们。
Ong Keng Yong: I regard the Belt and Road Initiative as a sustainable "Century Project." Sustainability has two important dimensions. On one hand, sustainability as it pertains to capital and resources is not an issue. China will forge its own path to project funding. On the other hand, whether residents of countries targeted for investment will accept this attention. The road to a port may be a sight to behold, but if no one uses it, it may not lead to profit. Now the problem is planning on who will make use of such projects.
▲ 2018年8月2日，斯里兰卡科伦坡国际集装箱码头。（图/新华社）
Photo taken on Aug. 2, 2018 shows the Colombo International Container Terminals in Sri Lanka. (Photo/Xinhua)
在东道国层面，例如在斯里兰卡和印尼，政府需要告诉人民这是个好项目。他们对这些项目考虑良久，但无奈资金一直未到位。现在中国公司准备投资，那么可以考虑与中国合作并从中获利。问题是，东道政府对项目非常满意，但本国没有能力参与，因而希望中国完成所有工作，包括与当地民众的沟通。
At the local level, for example, the Sri Lankan and Indonesian governments must inform their respective constituents that this is a beneficial project. These have been considered for a long time, yet funds haven't been so forthcoming. Now that Chinese companies are ready to invest, we can partner with the Chinese side to our benefit. The problem is that a host country government may be very satisfied with the project, yet the country is unable to participate, so they hope is that China will complete all requisite components, including the communication with locals.
首先，中国需要和东道国政府沟通，东道国政府需要做得更多。当然，中国承包商会带来工程师和劳工并进行项目施工。但如果当地民众抱怨他们没有工作，那么东道国政府需要解决这个问题。
First, China needs to communicate with the host government, and the host government needs to do more. Of course, Chinese contractors will provide engineers and labor for construction, however locals may complain of job losses, hence the host government needs to solve this problem.
其次，中国将本国劳工带到项目所在国，是因为该国没有适合聘用的劳工。在初始阶段，使用当地劳工需要额外的时间。但是，在第二阶段，如果中国对当地劳工进行培训，中国就可以减少使用本国劳工而更多使用东道国当地劳工了。
Second, China will bring labor to the project because there is no available workforce there for China to recruit. It will take extra time to hire local workers, which may happen during the first stage. However, should China train locals, during the second phase China can reduce imported labor and source workers locally.
▲ 位于苏伊士经济特区的巨石埃及玻纤生产基地被视作中国与埃及工业合作的成功典范之一。
Jushi Egypt For Fiberglass Industry S.A.E (Jushi Egypt), located in the China-Egypt Suez Economic and Trade Cooperation Zone, has been regarded as one of the most successful examples of industrial cooperation between the two countries.
（China Focus评：“一带一路”项目应该为东道国创造就业机会。不过，当地的劳工参与情况也因不同国家而异。例如，中国在埃及建造的平板玻璃厂里，在普通工人中当地人占比达99%，中层管理人员中也达到67%。）
(China Focus Note: BRI projects should create jobs for the host country. Local labor participation is a case-by-case issue. A sheet glass factory in Egypt, built by China, for instance, local people account for 99% of field workers and 67% of mid-level management staff.)
最后一点，中国商品从北京出发，途径西安、新疆、哈萨克斯坦，最后到达欧洲。中国可以从沿线国家获得什么？例如，中国铁路经过中亚到达德黑兰，伊朗人对这条列车线路表示满意，那么下一步就是伊朗的企业计划如何将商品运回中国。如果火车在伊朗卸载了所有来自中国的货物，但没有带着伊朗商品返回，那么这就会形成问题。我认为“一带一路”的规划者和设计者需要持续敦促当地政府注意这一点。
Finally, Chinese goods go from Beijing, through Xi'an, Xinjiang, Kazakhstan, and finally to Europe, but what does China gain from these countries? For example, Chinese railway reached Tehran through Central Asia. After initialization Iranians were satisfied with the railway. The next step was how an Iranian company would plan on shipping goods back to China. If the train unloads the entirety of its cargo from China in Iran but does not return with Iranian goods, then new problems will arise. I think planners and designers of the Belt and Road need to continue to urge local governments to pay attention to such a scenario.
China Focus: “一带一路”在新加坡推进情况如何？新加坡将会扮演什么角色？
China Focus: How goes the progress of the Belt and Road in Singapore? What role will Singapore play?
王景荣：“一带一路”实际上存在两层投资。一层负责建造大型公路、铁路、桥梁、港口，另一层则负责开设旅馆、学校和商店的投资。这两层需要完全不同的参与者。
Ong Keng Yong: The Belt and Road actually has two layers of investment: The first is installing large scale roads, railways, bridges, and ports, and the second focuses on erecting hotels, schools, and stores. Each of these require completely different participants.
新加坡尽管有资金和专家，但作用一直是服务性的，是配对角色。鉴于在基础设施建设和经济发展方面有着丰富经验，新加坡可以为“一带一路”发展提供更多想法。
While Singapore has the funding and expertise, it has always played match-maker, which is service-oriented. Given its experience in infrastructure and economic development, Singapore can also offer ideas to improve the BRI as a participating country.
第一，作为传统的金融和交通中心，新加坡可以将对项目感兴趣的投资者聚集起来，为项目建设筹集资金。“一带一路”需要新加坡这个“银行”，从而带动更多国际性的参与。
First, as a traditional financial and transportation hub, Singapore can convene interested investors and raise funds for the construction of related projects. Singapore is needed in the BRI as she can act as a bank to attract more international engagement.
第二，在“海上丝绸之路”建设中，新加坡与很多共建国家的企业和人民保持了良好关系。因此，新加坡可以协助中国进行能力建设、劳工培训和物流秩序维护等工作。更重要的是，中国需要问自己是否能处理所有事情。如果中国完成所有事情，那么就没有利益相关者了。所以，我们需要纳入更多利益相关者。如果出现问题，那不仅仅是中国和斯里兰卡、孟加拉国等国的事情，也是这些利益相关的投资者的事情。亚投行是非常好的概念，是新的国际金融机构。对新加坡而言，如果一个项目评估良好，那么就可以鼓励亚投行进行投资，同时亚投行可以吸引更多伙伴国投资。这是新加坡可以发挥的作用，主要是提供资金、网络化、增加利益相关方，如果需要还可以提供工程和技术方面的帮助。
Second, per construction of the Maritime Silk Road, Singapore has maintained good relations with companies and people in many countries along the route. Therefore, Singapore can help build capacity, train labor, and maintain logistical order. More importantly, China must ask if assistance will be required. If China were to do everything, then there would be no need for other stakeholders, so more stakeholders need to be included. If there is a problem, it is not only a matter concerning China, Sri Lanka, and Bangladesh, but also investors. The AIIB, a new international financial institution, is a very good concept. For Singapore, if a project is well evaluated, the AIIB can be encouraged to invest, and it can attract more investment from partner countries. This is a role that Singapore can play, mainly by providing funding, networking, increasing stakeholders and, if needed, engineering and technical assistance.
编辑 / China Focus
图片 / 网络
美编 / 高铭
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