IDD | 对话巨匠 : 走进89年历史的德国建筑设计事务所HPP/ VOL.4
特别鸣谢 | 首席领先伙伴
RARA 系统定制家居
以构建国际领先的系统定制家居品牌为理念
对“IDD世界领先设计对话”的支持
IDD世界领先设计对话，是广州设计周联合GIA广州设计周全球伙伴联盟中的中外设计领先机构、组织和媒体发起的一项对话世界设计领先者的国际设计交流计划，IDD世界领先设计对话以「MASTER MIND巨匠的思索」为思想探寻的的主旨方向，希冀通过与世界领先设计巨匠对话，探索世界领先设计思想，以世界领先推动中国领先，以中国领先影响世界设计。
十几年来，广州设计周对于中国设计与世界领先设计思索的交流对话从未停止，IDD世界领先设计对话以对话巨匠、发掘新声、臻选杰作三大内容版块构建年度运营体系，由此推动世界领先设计与中国设计之间的对话交流和发展。
对话巨匠，追随领先
Dialoguing With Masters To Follow The Leading
对话巨匠 追随领先 | VOL.4
HPP
德国 | Germany
设计服务包含城市规划，建筑设计，景观及室内设计。拥有近500 名多元文化背景员工及89 年历史的德国品质传承，1200+ 全球落地项目及20+年中国本土实践的宝贵经验。Design service includes urban planning, architecture, landscape and interiors. German quality with 89 years of history with nearly 500 employees from multicultural backgrounds, more than 1200 completed projects worldwide and practical and local experiences in China for more than 20 years.
- IDD对话巨匠系列专访 -
本期走进国际一流建筑规划设计事务所HPP对话HPP建筑事务所合伙人Jens Kump一起探讨世界顶尖建筑设计事务所背后的领先意识
广州设计周 x RARA x OBJEKT境界杂志 联袂巨献
【对话巨匠：走进国际一流建筑规划设计事务所HPP】访谈正片
Jens Kump
德国HPP建筑设计事务所合伙人
根据公司全球发展战略，彦思·库先生于2006年赴上海创建 HPP 在中国的第一个分公司，担任上海办公室创始人及设计总监。他将德国人具有的严谨和对中国文化的热爱投身于建筑设计事业，将先进的设计理念和技术带到中国，并结合中国城市本土化特征实现不同规模的建筑设计与项目落地品质的把控。According to the global development strategy of HPP International, Mr. Kump started working in Shanghai as the founder & director of HPP China office in 2006.During his 15+ years’ experience in living and working in China, Mr. Kump has realized numerous of remarkable architectural projects for the local Chinese market combining his German character of rationality with the enthusiasm of Chinese culture. He brings the international design approach with technological innovative ideas to China and completed many architectural designs and projects of different scales, with high quality and local characteristics for the Chinese market.
QUESTIONS ABOUT DESIGN AND PROJECT
关于工作和项目
Q1
你们设计的上汽浦东足球场，是国内首个满足 FIFA国际A级比赛要求的专业足球场，这么优质的项目是如何开始的？有哪些新的科技和体验设计？
Let's talk about this awesome project of yours, Pudong Football stadium, being the first FIFA qualified level A football stadium in China, how did it all start and what innovative technologies and design are in it?我们从国际设计大赛里胜出赢得了这个项目。在一年多的时间里，我们有过很多的创意想法，并与国际足联体育场的专业用户进行了深入的讨论，把他们的意见归纳到设计思考中去。可以说我们在一开始的时候我们（在上海办事处）是新手，本地团队从来没有设计过这个类型的项目。我们的德国总部在设计国际足联标准足球场这方面的知识积累深厚，我们的团队从德国同事那里得到了很多帮助，这些年来，我们的团队也积累了丰富的智慧和实践知识，现在在公司中这个类目里我们也可以当老师了。所以这是一个正常的过程，就像孩子在成长，变得更加强壮，和家庭的其他成员一样强壮。这个过程中是纯粹的设计乐趣。作为建筑师，多年前我们选择上大学学习建筑，因为我们想要设计且有自己的设计想法。我认为这是我们的团队成员聚集在一起的原因，并且在这个项目和其他很多项目中取得成功的原因。所以这些项目具有同等重要的两种价值，对当今设计项目实施的、深入的专业知识和设计自由带来的创意价值。
It was an international competition. And we were competing over one year with many ideas and many approaches with lots of professional input from professional users of FIFA stadium. So there is, let's say, the special knowledge from Germany that we didn't have (in Shanghai office) at the beginning on how FIFA requests a football stadium to be built. We were newbies that we never have planned it before. Our team got very much help from our colleagues in Germany and over the years we developed wisdom and reconserved knowledge. And now let's say we are teachers now within the company for sports stadium type of project. So it's a normal process like a child is growing the child gets stronger. The child gets equal as the other parts of the family and that's what happened to us with our team. And the process is pure design FUN. As architects, years ago we chose to go to university and study architecture, it is because we want to design and we have a design message. I think that was what brought us together here in our office and that's why we succeeded not only in this project but also in many other projects that have this same double value, the deep professional knowledge of how something actually works nowadays and the freedom of design.建筑师（对于项目如何发展）需要保持一定的智慧，并且知道一定程度即可，而不是100%，否则设计的自由度将被冻结并被之前建立的规则所限制，所以一定程度的无政府式的自由状态总是有助于开发新的东西，真正地创新。
An architect needs to stay wise and knowing to a certain percentage but not 100% (on how the project developes), otherwise it will be frozen and blocked by the rules that have been established before, so a little bit of anarchy and freedoms are always helpful to develop something new to be really innovative.这座体育场有着众多创新之处，其中一个是在于（观众）离足球运动员如此之近，这在中国是独特的创新。
What is very innovative about this stadium is (audience) being so close to the football players, so that is new and innovative here in China.上海上汽浦东足球场
SAIC Motor Pudong Arena, Shanghai
QUESTIONS ABOUT CUSTOMERS AND FUTURE
关于客户和未来
Q2
以客户为中心，且长期客户维护得很好，您认为这种商业成功的秘诀是什么？
How do you serve your client well？What is the "secret source"?我们乐于为客户提供真正需要的服务。近90年来，我们一直在寻找每一个项目的正解，每一代的建筑师都采用与时俱进的现代方法。因此，提供服务并帮助客户创造持久的价值，这就是我们正在做的，也是未来会持续做的，同时通过创新来展望未来，为他人创造他们自己的价值，这是从前几代的建筑师那里传承了这些理念。总结起来是服务精神、创新和创造持久价值，我认为这就是HPP的价值观。从一个或两个创始人设计师定义的设计公司，亨特里希和派屈奇（HPP的创始人），经过了近90年的发展，现在成为了一个团队，一个由专业人士组成的国际化团队，能够满足客户和社会的需求，以产生高质量的项目，并可以持续到未来。
We enjoy to serve clients with real needs. So we have been searching for each project for the right answer for almost 90 years, in each generation and on a modern approach. So giving service and helping clients to create lasting value, that is what we are doing and (if we are) looking into the future with innovation, so service, innovation and lasting value. These are the keywords that I can stand for and we've taken over from the generations before me and that is the HPP value. We are ready to create for other people their own value and we are not any more a design company that is defined by one or two designers, like Hentrich and Petschnigg (the founders of HPP). We are a company that is a team, a network of professionals that takes all the clients and society needs to generate identity at a high level of quality, lasting into the future.湖南广播电视台节目生产基地
Hunan Broadcasting System Program Centre
北京金隅兴发科技园（水泥厂改造）
Beijing Jinyu Xingfa Science Park
Q3
我们的政府和年轻人（Z世代）都非常重视可持续发展和”碳中和“等环保问题，对此贵司有哪些在研发和项目设计层面有哪些好的计划，技术和举措呢？
It just happens so that our government as well as Generation-Z both care very much about sustainability and carbon neutralization issues . How do you tackle this pressing issue at research and design project level?这应该是我们根深蒂固的思想的根源。可持续发展对我们的意义从一开始概念阶段就意味着有一些东西会随着时间的推移而存在，并且存在的时候也是被需要、被爱、被关心的，为此人们需要承担了更多的责任，所以最重要的责任之一是可持续性。如果所计划的东西需要长久地持续下去，（我们）需要确保这些东西会以一种有尊严的状态而长期存在。
It should be the root and it is our deep-rooted thinking. So it started with what sustainable means. It means something stays over time because it is needed, loved, cared about, because people have taken responsibility overtime, so the most important responsibility is sustainability. If you plan things that should stay alive very long, (we) need to make sure these things deserve to stay long time with dignity.概念阶段的可持续性只是一个开始。当然，在深化细节阶段我们将详细讨论建筑的能耗，及其如何在城市环境中的在地性，及如何最终在技术上进行配置以节约运营的资源，这是技术设备层面的可持续性。这意味着要有一种智慧的、现代的方式来处理能源问题。能源的消耗会是更加合理的，起码是比以前的一代更加平衡，所以要提高责任感和技术水平，这是大多数人都知道的。有一个新的趋势是再次利用。我的意思是回收材料并不是什么新鲜事，你可以在任何地方看到它。人们需要材料，他们保留整理出他们发现有价值的东西，甚至收集其他人认为没有价值的建筑垃圾，这些垃圾对某些人没有价值，但可以转化为其他有价值的东西。这可以是低技术或高新技术的，你也可以从一栋建筑的建造开始就计划如何转换和安排那些可以在40年或50年后拆除并再利用的部分。
The conceptual sustainability is just the beginning. Then of course, we're going into detail, what the building is in terms of energy consumption, how it can be allocated in the urban context and how it can be also finally technically equipped to be energy saving in terms of resources that we use for operating. It's technically equipment sustainability. That means to have a smart, modern way to deal with energy. Consumption of energy in a reasonable and in a better balance than generation before, so to grow that senese of responsibility and growing technically that's what most people know. And there's a new trend is the reusing. I mean that's nothing new to recycle material and you can see it everywhere people are in need of materials and they keep valuable things they find, even collect what other people don't find as valuable, even garbage which has no value for somebody but will have value converted into something else. That can be low-tech or high-tech so that you can also convert and really organize your leftovers from a building and be able to be dismantled in 40 or 50 years and partly reused.在德国，一些 HPP 正在建设中的项目中在使用着我个人觉得非常有趣的技术，称为“摇篮”的项目，从摇篮到摇篮是指在从规划阶段到施工阶段的项目管理中，以高效灵活的方式使用和再利用材料。这些材料可以再次成为建筑材料或成为另一种建筑原料。这是一种新趋势，我们认为这将在世界其他地区以及中国出现。我们希望这个在德国的原型也能在中国引起一些好奇心。
In German, under construction from HPP I think that is very interesting projects called "the Cradle". The cradle to cradle typology is that a project from the planning phase to the construction phase is organized to use and reuse materials in efficient and flexible way. (These materials) partly become construction material again or become another kinds of material (from a new cradle) . That's a new trend that we think will come to many other parts of the world as well as in China. We hope this prototype in Germany can also create some curiosity here in China that we had.杜塞尔多夫摇篮大楼
the Cradle, Düsseldorf
Q4
对于Generation-Z，你们在设计的时候什么样的设计是一个好的设计？
What is good design for Generation-Z？这一代人现在已经准备好进入工作生活，他们充满了想法，他们准备好了。我认为这是人生中非常有趣的时刻，我认为这是新一代的升级，使用计算机和其他电子设备，就像大脑的延伸是自己的一部分。
Gen Z generation they are now ready to enter the work life. They are filled with ideas they are prepared and I think that's a very interesting moment of life.所以这让他们更好反应更快，也许不是更聪明，但这非常鼓舞人心。无论是对于未来还是我们办公室来说，能够轻松地通过三维方式来操控和塑造空间对于我们来说是很关键的。这是我们作为建筑师所做的。
So that makes you better, faster maybe, not smarter. I find it very inspiring. For the future and for our office, it is also important for us that people obviously have it very easy to enter and to control three dimensional space and that's what we are doing as architects. We are forming a space and putting complex functions into it.深圳北站汇德大厦
Huide Tower Shenzhen North Station
QUESTION ABOUT IDD
关于IDD
Q5
“领先”对你意味着什么？作为一个设计行业的领导者的领导者
What is leadership to you as the leader of the firm, a leading firm in the design field?我们所处的现代社会，有着过剩的信息，管理这些信息是新的工作。为此我用我们严格的筛选机制和为客户着想的固执的思考来帮助客户做出选择，因为我们希望建筑可以真正被用起来。
Our modern society that is dealing with overwhelming, with the exuberance of ideas.So this managing of ideas is something new and there I help with my old fashioned and cruel selection process but also with my stubborn thinking as a user. I always put myself in the position of a user, because I want buildings to be used.我们的经验和职业特点会帮助我们预估需求，包括人民的需要和社会的需要。如果有人有对某事特别强烈的意愿、意见或愿望，我们也会将其与我们的经验相结合，和我们的专业的精神结合。这听起来有点抽象，但事实就是这样。
I would say that's our experience and out of our profession that we also anticipate people's needs, society's needs. Even somebody has a very strong willing or opinion or or wish about something we will always mix it with our experience of our professionality. It sounds abstract but that's how it is.当然我们很容易就陷入对设计本身的喜爱，我们的工作是用设计语言，描绘一个讯息，我们会尝试很多东西之后找到一种美好的状态。但是，最后将不同的元素像交响乐一样地衔接在一起，使它有一个结构，在一个框架中，这是我们的业务，也是我们的经验，积累了90年了的经验。
Of course, we are falling in love with design. With design language we have a message, we know what is beautiful, we try many things out but to bring the orchestra together and put it in a structure, put it in a frame, that's our business and that's our experience. That comes over time, nearly 90 years (of experience).中企未来世纪大厦
China Enterprise Future Century Tower
Q6
您会给年轻设计师什么样的建议？
What kind of advice would you give to younger generation designers?积极地去寻找，主动地去理解，积极地使用空间并且利用好空间。建筑是为使用而生的，所以使用好它。
Actively look, actively understand and actively take space, use any space. Building is made for be used, so use it.建筑不是为了建筑而生的，建筑是为了人接管这个空间，所以年轻人应该努力占据空间，当然用一种有负责任感的方式。因为每个人都是有责任的，对于每个人来说，都是双腿站立健全的就是有责任的。与建筑有关的设计师要对建筑负责，对如何使用建筑负责。他们需要思考何为建筑，如何规划好建筑。
Building is not for building, building is for people so young people take the space, occupy the space with responsibility. Of course, everybody is responsible, for every second standing on two legs. If you're talking about designers that have to do something with buildings, of course they're responsible for buildings and how they use buildings, how they think buildings and how to plan buildings.一些设计师甚至会改变他们的物理空间设计以满足更好的线上展示的需求，让它更有吸引力。对我们来说，这并不重要。对我们来说比较重要的是真实的世界和信任。
Some designers would even change their physical design of the space to create a better instagramable space . For us, it's not so important. I would say to us what is important is the real world and trust.作为一名建筑师我发现我更喜欢真实的世界，我喜欢可以触摸的材料和在同一时空中和真实的人在一起。我们的项目复杂程度提升了，当规划空间的时候，我喜欢用电脑，最好其他人也喜欢用，因为非常容易使用和彼此沟通，能够更好地控制机制和信息。有些项目是40年前不可能做到的项目，我们一开始也不敢相信，因为它需要更加高级地使用软件复杂的计算及控制，汇集建筑知识并完全地掌控三维空间。
The complexity of our projects is increasing, but I find that as architect I like the real world, I like materials that I can touch, I like to be with real people in space.To plan space, I like to use a computer and I like that other people are very easy to use, to be in better control of the mechanisms and the information. Some projects 40 years ago would not have been possible and we also, at the beginning, didn't believe it, because they needed a higher level of sophisticated domination of the computer.还有信任，因为我们是以我们遵守承诺后的交付的工作质量来被衡量的。我们很乐意为有真实需求的客户服务。因此，我们的事务所在过去的90年来的每个项目上都在找寻正确答案。在现代，每一代建筑师都会用现代的方法提供设计服务，为帮助客户创造持久的价值，这就是我们正在做的。展望未来，创新、服务和持久价值就是我们追求的。
Trust is also important, because we are measured by the quality that we keep after our promise. We have fun, we enjoy to serve clients with real needs. So we are searching for each project since 90 years the right answer on a modern and in each generation modern approach. So giving service and helping clients to create a lasting value, that is what we're doing.And looking into the future with innovation, so service, innovation and lasting value are our values.西交利物浦大学太仓校区
Xi’an Jiaotong-Liverpool Uni. TC. Campus
黄河体育中心专业足球场
Soccer Arena of Huanghe Sports Centre
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