教学素材 | 视频+双语文本！刘欣与福克斯主播“跨洋贸易战辩论”

 

北京时间5月30日早8点26分，备受瞩目的中美女主播首次“跨洋贸易战辩论”如约进行。辩论双方为中国国际电视台CGTN女主持刘欣与美国福克斯商业频道（Fox Business Network）女主播翠西·里根（Trish Regan）。刘欣通过卫星连线形式作为嘉宾参与翠西·里根本日的直播节目实现了这场对话。

对话于北京时间8点43分结束，持续时间约16分钟，涉及贸易谈判（trade talks）、知识产权（intellectual property）、关税协定（tariffs）、国有资本（capitalism）以及中国发展（China’s development）等多方面问题。

刘欣与福克斯主播“跨洋贸易战辩论”视频

下面让我们一起关注本次对话中的核心要点。

关于贸易谈判：

中方立场非常明确，尊重是对话的前提

Trish Regan: What is your current assessment of where the trade talks are. Do you believe a deal is possible?

Liu Xin: I don't have any inside information. What I knew was the talks were not very successful last time, and both sides are considering what to go next.

But I think the Chinese government has made its position very clear that unless the United States treats the Chinese government negotiating team with respect and shows the willingness to talk without using outside pressure.

And there is high possibility that there could be a productive trade deal. Otherwise I think we might be facing a prolonged period of problems for both sides.

翠西·里根：你可以评估一下中美两国在贸易战中的处境吗？你认为中美可能会达成某种协议吗？

刘欣：我并不知道内部消息。我所知道的是上次的对话结果不甚理想，两方正在考虑中美贸易对话下一步如何进行。我认为中国政府已经非常明确地表明了他们的立场，希望美国可以尊重中国谈判团队，表现出谈判的诚意，而不是施加外部压力。

这样才可能会达成一个富有成效的协议。如果美方不尊重对话，那么可能会造成旷日持久的矛盾。

关于知识产权：

中国社会对加强知识产权保护是有广泛共识的

Trish: Let me turn to one of the biggest issues and that's intellectual property rights.

I mean fundamentally I think we can all agree it's never right to take something that's not yours. And yet in going through so many of these cases, cases at the independent World Trade Organization (WTO), China's a member of, as well as the DOJ and FBI cases, there's evidence there that China has stolen enormous amounts of intellectual property, hundreds of billions of dollars worth. That's a lot of money but truly I guess we shouldn't really care if it's hundreds of billions of dollars or just 50 cents.

How do American businesses operate in China if they're at risk for having the property their ideas, their hard work stolen.

翠西·里根：我们现在谈一谈最重要的问题——中美知识产权。我们都知道窃取别人的东西是不对的。中国是WTO的成员，DOJ和FBI有证据证明中国窃取了美国众多知识产权，价值数千亿美元。这是个很大的数额，当然我认为问题不在于这是数千亿美元还是五十美分。

美国有很多公司在中国投资办厂，如何确保他们的知识产权、劳动成果不被窃取？

Liu Xin: Well I think Trish you have to ask American businesses whether they wanted to come to China, whether they find coming to China and cooperating with Chinese businesses has been profitable or not and they will tell you their answers.

As far as I understand, many American companies have been established in China and they're very profitable and the great majority of them I believe, planned to continue to invest in China and explore the Chinese market.

Well now US President Donald Trump's tariff makes it a little bit more difficult, makes the future a little bit uncertain.

I do not deny that there are IP infringement, there are copyright issues or there are piracy or even theft of commercial secrets. I think that is something that has to be dealt with and I think the Chinese government and the Chinese people and me as an individual I think there's a consensus because without the protection of IP right, nobody no country no individual can be stronger can develop itself so I think that is a very clear consensus among the Chinese society.

Of course there are cases where individuals where companies go and steal and I think that's a common practice probably in every part of the world. Then there are companies in the United States who sue each other all the time over infringement on IP rights and you can't say simply because these cases are happening that America is stealing or China is stealing while the Chinese people are stealing. Basically that's the reason why I wrote that rebuttal because I think this kind of blanket statement is really not helpful.

刘欣：翠西，我认为你应该询问在华投资的美国公司的意愿，问问他们是否愿意在华投资，赚取丰厚利润。我想他们会给出答案。据我所知，迄今为止，许多美国公司在中国获利丰厚，我相信他们大多数人愿意继续进行投资并开拓中国市场。

但现在，美国总统特朗普的关税政策使得投资变得困难，中美贸易前景尚不明确。

我不否认中国有一些侵犯知识产权的案例，包括版权问题、盗版甚至是盗窃商业机密。这些问题必须解决，这是中国政府和中国人民以及我个人的共识。因为没有知识产权的保护，任何一个国家，任何个人都不能发展自己、变得强大。中国社会对加强知识产权保护是有广泛共识的。

当然，确实有些案例显示个人或公司偷窃他人知识成果，但这是世界各地都存在的问题。在美国，有些公司也经常因侵权而互相起诉。但并不能简单地因为这些案件发生在美国，就说美国偷窃，发生在中国，就说中国偷窃甚至是中国人都在偷窃。这就是我之前进行反驳的原因，因为我认为这种以偏概全的话没有任何意义。

关于关税：

改变规则必须由多边协定

Trish Regan: What do you think of "to heck with tariffs, let's get rid of them altogether." Would that work?

Liu Xin: I think that would be a wonderful idea. For American consumers products from China would be even cheaper, and for consumers in China products from America would be so much cheaper too.

I think this would be a wonderful idea and we should work towards that. But if you want to change the rules it has to be done in mutual consensus.

Basically, we talk about tariffs it is not just between China and the United States. I understand if you lower tariffs just between China and the United States, the Europeans will come, the Japanese will come, the Venezuelans probably will come and say hey we want the same tariff.

You can't discriminate between countries so it is a very complicated settlement to reach. Maybe these old rules need to be changed. Let's talk about it. Let's do it. If you don't like the rules we'll change the rules but again it has to be a multilateral decision, a multilateral process.

翠西·里根：你怎么样看待“同时取消关税”？你认为可行吗？

刘欣：我认为这是一个很好的想法。对于美国消费者来说，来自中国的产品会更便宜，对于中国的消费者来说，来自美国的产品也会更便宜。我认为我们应该朝着这个方向努力。

但是如果你想改变规则，就必须在双方达成共识的情况下进行。我们谈论的关税不只是中国和美国之间的关税。如果你降低中美之间的关税，那欧洲人、日本人、委内瑞拉人都会这样要求，我们不能厚此薄彼。

所以这很难达成共识。这完全是各国根据自身利益作出的决定。旧有的规则或许确实需要改变，所以我们可以对话，可以采取行动，但必须基于多边协商。

关于经济体系：

中国特色的社会主义经济是开放动态的

Trish Regan: Your system of economics is very interesting because you have a capitalist system but it's state-run. How do you define it?

Liu Xin: We would like to define it as socialism with Chinese characteristics, where market forces are expected to play the dominating or deciding role in the allocation of resources.

We want it to be a market economy but there are some Chinese characteristics, for instance, some state-owned enterprises which are playing an important but increasingly smaller role maybe in the economy.

And everybody thinks that China's economy is stated on everything, is state-controlled everything is state, state, state, but let me tell you it is not the true picture.

If you look at the statistics, 80 percent of Chinese employees work at private enterprises, 80 percent of exports are by private companies and produced by private companies. About 65 percent of technological innovation were achieved, will carried out by private enterprises. Some of the largest companies that effect our line, for instance some Internet companies or some 5G technology companies, they are private companies.

We are a socialist economy with Chinese characteristics, but we are not just state controlled, we are quite mixed, very dynamic and very open as well.

翠西·里根：你们的经济体系很有趣，因为它是国家资本主义体系。你如何定义它?

刘欣：我们是中国特色社会主义市场经济，让市场在经济中发挥主导作用。国有企业在经济中有重要作用，但作用正在不断减少，但国家并没有控制经济的一切。

如果你浏览一下数据，中国80%的就业是由民营企业提供的；中国80%的出口是由民营企业提供的；中国65%的创新是由民营企业完成的；中国一些领先的公司，比如互联网公司、5G技术公司都是民营企业。

所以，我们是具有中国特色的社会主义经济，但并不是所有的事情都是国家管控的。我们的经济制度是混合多元的、活跃的、开放的。

关于中国的发展：

中国人均GDP不及美国人均GDP的六分之一

Trish Regan: Let me turn to China right now which is now the second largest economy. At one point will China decide to abandon its developing nation status and will stop borrowing from the World Bank?

Liu Xin: Well I think this kind of discussion is going on and I've heard very live  discussions about this and indeed there are people talking about China already becoming so big, why don't you just grow up… Basically I think you said it in your program as well, China grow up.

Well I think we want to grow up, but it depends on how you define developing country. If you look at the overall size of the Chinese economy, yes we are very big, the world's number one, but don't forget we have 1.4 billion people that is over three times the population of the United States.

So if you divide the second largest overall economy in the world, when it comes down to per capita GDP we're I think less than one-sixth of that of the United States and even less than some other more developed countries in Europe, so you tell me where shall we put ourselves?

This is a very complicated issue because per capita as I said is very small but overall it's very big so we can do a lot of big things and people are looking upon us to do much more around the world.

So I think we are doing that we're contributing to the United Nations. We're the world's biggest contributor to the UN peacekeeping missions. We are giving out donations and humanitarian aids and all of that, because we know we have to grow up.

翠西·里根：现在让我来谈谈中国，中国现在是世界第二大经济体。中国将在什么时候决定放弃发展中国家的地位？什么时候才能停止向世界银行借款？

刘欣：是的，现在确实有人在热烈地讨论这个问题，我也有所耳闻。有人说中国已经变得如此之大，为什么不承认你已经强大了，就像你在节目里提到过的。

我想我们都想变得强大，但这取决于你如何定义发展中国家。中国经济的总体量是很大，但中国有14亿人口，是美国人口的三倍多。如果把世界第二大经济体划分为人均GDP，尚不及美国人均GDP的六分之一， 甚至不及欧洲一些比较发达的国家。所以你告诉我，我们应该把自己放在什么样的位置?

这是一个非常复杂的问题，我们的人均收入非常少，但GDP总量非常大。所以我们可以做很多大事，人们希望我们在世界各地做更多的事情。我们正在为联合国事务作出贡献。我们是联合国维和任务的最大贡献者，也提供了非常多的国际人道主义援助，因为我们知道我们必须成长。

刘欣在这次对话中展现了她优秀的英语沟通能力、强大的思辨能力与国际视野，征服了国内外的观众，她冷静、睿智的风格也让小编特别崇拜！

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