三位画廊主眼中的军械库艺博会｜The Armory Show in Three Gallery Directors' Eyes

在2020年军械库艺术博览会期间，艺讯网访问了三位来自不同单元的画廊主，深入了解了他们各自面向的市场，选择艺术家参展时的考量，以及对纽约现阶段艺术生态和未来趋势的把握。

During the Armory Show, CAFA ART INFO conducted interviews with three gallery directors from different sections to learn about their targeted market sections, strategic concerns when selecting artists, and predictions on market trends based on the current state of the art communities in New York.

主题优先：首次参展的画廊在「焦点」单元集体亮相

Theme as the priority: Galleries making debuts in the Armory Show form a collective image in Focus

Installation view of Viktor Popović’s Untitled (Archive Zenčišće) , C24 Gallery, New York

David C. Terry曾是柏林巴德学院的客座教授, 也曾是纽约艺术基金会赠款和展览部门的总监兼策展人。以下是艺讯网和成立于2011年的纽约C24画廊总监David C. Terry的对话。

Terry was previously a visiting faculty member at Bard College, Berlin. Prior to Bard, Terry was the Director and Curator of Grants and Exhibitions at the New York Foundation for the Arts. Here is an interview with David C. Terry, the Director of C24 Gallery in New York.

艺讯网：是什么动因驱使您申请了今年的军械库艺术博览会？在申请的过程中，您曾遇到了怎样的挑战？

CAFA ART INFO: What drove you to apply for the Armory Show? What was the challenge during your application?

David C. Terry: 画廊之所以申请参与军械库艺博会，是因为这对我们代理的艺术家来说将会是一个非常好的展示作品的平台。画廊最后入选了「焦点」这一个更侧重策展理念的单元，和很多出色且有趣的画廊共同分享着空间，这使我感到无比荣幸。

David C. Terry: So the reason we applied for me is because it's a really magnificent platform to showcase our artists’ work. It's an honor to be included in this Focus section, the more curated sections. Here we share the space with are really wonderful, fascinating, interesting galleries and artists.

对我来说，最大的挑战是真正去理解不同单元在策展构思上的差异，然后再将我们代理的艺术家惯常的创作与各个单元的主题一一进行匹配，从中找到最优解。出于巧合，当时我在柏林认识了在那里驻地创作的Viktor Popović，并与他合作得相当愉快，他是我立刻就想到的人选。事实也证明，他的作品非常契合「焦点」这个单元。

So the challenge was to really look at the description of the different curated sections and to see if any of our artists created work that kind of celebrated what the theme was. Coincidentally, I had been working with Viktor Popović who was doing a residency in Berlin. So when this application came around, he was in my head. And it turned out that his work was a good match with Focus.

艺讯网：众所周知，今年焦点单元的主题是“身份找寻和历史重述”。您认为您所选择的艺术家是如何回应这一主题的？

CAFA ART INFO: As we know, this year's Focus is about the alternate versions of self and revisionist histories. Why do you think the artist you select respond to the theme?

David C. Terry: Viktor做的很多作品都是关于记忆中的空间和潜在的位移。当我把今年的主题描述给他之后，他立刻就对自己将要为这次展览创作的项目有了想法。他游访了一些七十年代晚期现代主义风格的克罗地亚建筑，并拍摄了这些已被摧毁后现存遗址的样貌。很自然而然地，这些新的作品和主题完美地契合了。

David C. Terry: Viktor does a lot of work about spaces in memory and potential displacement. After I described the theme to him, he immediately had this project in mind. He visited the sites of those late Modern Croatian architectures from the 1970s and photographed today's devastated grounds. And it just kind of worked out. It aligned perfectly.

Detail of Viktor Popović’s Untitled (Archive Zenčišće) , C24 Gallery, New York

艺讯网：您还参加其他的艺博会吗？您认为军械库与其他艺博会有何不同？

CAFA ART INFO: Do you participate in other kinds of art fairs? How does the Armory Show distinguish itself from others?

David C. Terry: 在地理位置方面有很大的不同吧。我们参加了西雅图艺博会，艺术迈阿密，伊斯坦布尔当代艺术博览会。这些展会遍布世界各地，每一个都有不同的气质氛围。而这一次，策展的氛围很浓厚。你可以看到将近三十个画廊针对同一主题交出答卷。因此整个展会现场感觉上更像是在表达一个集体性的观念，而其他展会就更个性化。并且，当你走进一个艺博会，通常会看到画廊们都在一个展厅里同时展出五六位艺术家。而在这里，每个展厅只有一两位艺术家，你也因此会看到更统一和谐的场景。我认为军械库艺博会的这一形式设置十分有趣。

David C. Terry: There are quite a few differences in location. So we've participated in the Seattle Art Fair, Art Miami, and Contemporary Istanbul. All those locations are kind of all over the world. And there's a just a kind of a different vibe, in this case, it is the curatorial vibe. You have maybe 30 galleries that are all working around a theme. So it feels like a little bit more of a collective idea, whereas the other ones are more individual. And also when you go to other art fairs, you might see galleries show five or six artists in one room. In this case, there's only one or two artists. So you get to see a more consistent vision. So it's an interesting take.

艺讯网：您如何看待未来十年里艺术市场的趋势？您又将如何根据这一趋势调整自己的商业建构？

CAFA ART INFO: How do you see the trend of the following decade in the art market? How will you adapt the business model towards that trend?

David C. Terry: 我猜想科技在未来的十年里将会起很重要的作用。十年前，艺术世界已经对科技开始有很大的兴趣，但科技在那时的运用方式不太一样。也许未来会有越来越多增强现实的作品，数码作品，甚至植入式的作品。谁知道呢？我很难说我的商业模式会如何根据这一趋势去转变，因为我还不知道那些作品究竟会是什么样的。但我认为，如果它们是足够有力的作品或者观念，它们自然而然会驱动整个商业结构围绕着它们进行转型。我认为艺术市场永远都是按着这种逻辑在运行的。

David C. Terry: I guess technology will have a huge role in some way in the following decade. Ten years ago there was already a strong interest in technology, but technology was utilized differently at that time. Maybe there will be more augmented reality work, digital work, even implanted work. Who knows? It's hard to say how the business model would change accordingly, because I don't know what it will look like. In my opinion, if they're strong work and strong vision that should drive. I think it will always be like that.

高端市场的游戏规则：「画廊」作为艺博会最严肃的环节

Rules of the high-end market: Galleries as the most serious section of the fair

Katie de Tilly于1994年来到香港，并在2001年成立了10号赞善里画廊。她是Tate APAC委员会的董事会成员，也是RMIT大学的项目顾问，并且是香港画廊协会的联合主席。在香港经营着10号赞善里画廊的Katie de Tilly分享了她之所以选择已被西方艺术机构认可接纳的中国艺术家来参展的原因，以下是谈话内容。

Katie de Tilly arrived in Hong Kong in 1994, and founded 10 Chancery Lane Gallery in 2001. She sits on the board of the Tate APAC committee, Program Advisory Committee of RMIT University and is Co-President of the Hong Kong Art Gallery Association. Katie de Tilly,  the director of 10 Chancery Lane Gallery in Hong Kong, shared the reason why she only showed Chinese artists accepted by western institutions.

Installation view of Shi Guowei’s photography and Wang Keping’s sculpture, 10 Chancery Lane Gallery, HK

艺讯网：众所周知今年三月的香港巴塞尔艺术博览会被取消了，您认为这次纽约的艺博会将如何帮助画廊弥补在亚洲市场的损失？

CAFA ART INFO: As we all know that the Art Basel Hong Kong was called off, how do you expect the art fair here in New York can help the gallery to cope with the lost profit in art business back in Asia?

Katie de Tilly: 现在整个世界对新型冠状病毒都充满了疑问。媒体对这一事件进行了史无前例如此密切集中的报导和关注。只有时间才能帮助我们去判断那些四处散播的信息之真与假。无论如何，我们都非常庆幸自己此刻在纽约。我们展出的两位艺术家，史国瑞和王克平，收到了热烈的反响。藏家们都非常兴致盎然地想要了解他们的创作。因此我们并不觉得我们在这里的展示有因为香港巴塞尔艺术博览会和正在亚洲肆虐的新型冠状病毒疫情而受到影响。我认为大家对作品都展现了很积极的态度。没有人因为他们是中国艺术家而指手画脚，而更多地是从美学的角度在欣赏和理解他们。

Katie de Tilly: Right now, the whole world is under certain questioning about the COVID-19. So there is definitely never before in the history so much media attention towards it. Whether that information is true or not, the time will tell. However, we're very happy to be here in New York. We are having great response to Chinese artists that we are showing: Shi Guorui and Wang Keping. And the collectors are very open and happy to hear about their work. So we don't feel that it is too much affected by the cancellation of the Art Basel Hong Kong or the coronavirus outbreak back in Asia. We think the reception of the show is quite positive. Nobody judges the work because they are Chinese in any different way than its beautiful artwork.

艺讯网：香港现在的艺术氛围怎么样？

CAFA ART INFO: How is the atmosphere of Hong Kong art scene right now?

Katie de Tilly: 在香港，我们正在和整个艺术社群共同发起一个名为Art Power HK的活动，这一活动将从三月中延续到五月底。我们会把一系列因疫情取消的艺术活动转移到线上，使它们能够继续发生进行。我们认为2020年对香港艺术家们来说将会是非常重要的一年。在这一艺术社群中的艺术工作者们都共同渴望去维护香港艺术的势头。有很多事情之前都未曾发生过。即使有的时候，我会觉得大家的反应都有些过激了，但我们现在下结论为时尚早。

Katie de Tilly: In Hong Kong itself, we are working together with the whole art community to start a collaborative campaign from the middle of March until the end of May, which is called Art Power HK. It's initiated by a group of people working in the field. I'm one of them. We will make many artistic events and exhibitions affected by the coronavirus outbreak continue to happen online. We feel that 2020 is an important time for Hong Kong artists and there is a community-wide desire to maintain momentum for the arts in Hong Kong. This is something that never happened before. So even sometimes I think it's overreaction, but we cannot say yet.

Installation view of Shi Guowei’s photography and Wang Keping’s sculpture, 10 Chancery Lane Gallery, HK

艺讯网：您为什么选择这两位中国艺术家代表画廊出席这次的军械库艺博会？

CAFA ART INFO: Why do you choose these two Chinese artists for the Armory Show?

Katie de Tilly: 史国瑞和王克平是国际上很知名且重要的艺术家。史国瑞曾在纽约大都会博物馆展示过他的作品。他在2006年首次在美国旧金山举办了美术馆级别的个展。他明天在圣地亚哥摄影美术馆还有一个展览开幕。总的来说，他是一个很有国际影响力的艺术家，他的藏家遍及世界各地。

Katie de Tilly: Both of these artists, Shi Guorui and Wang Keping are internationally recognized and important artists. Shi Guorui has shown his work in the Metropolitan Museum of Art here in New York. He had his first museum solo show in 2006 in San Francisco. He will also have an opening at the Museum of Photographic Art in San Diego tomorrow. So he has a real strong international presence and collection.

王克平目前有71岁，现居住在巴黎。他是星星画展的发起人之一，也是第一批因为这一场“文革”之后的前卫艺术运动而从中国走出来的艺术家。作为一个优秀雕塑家、资深艺术家，他在欧洲、亚洲、美国都非常受爱戴。

Wang Keping who is based in Paris is 71 years old. He's one of the founders of “The Stars” (Xing Xing), China’s first avant garde art group following the Cultural Revolution. He is also one of the first artists to come out of China after Xingxing Exhibition in 1979. As a wonderful sculptor, as well as a senior artist, he is very loved in Europe, in Asia, and in the US.

我们选择这两位艺术家主要是因为他们的作品都很深刻，并且他们在国际舞台上都有一定的观众群。而与他们是不是中国人没什么关系。

It's not necessarily because they're Chinese or not Chinese. We choose to show these two artists because both of them are doing work that is very deep, and they have a very global audience.

艺讯网：除了军械库艺术博览会，您每年还参加哪些艺博会？在您的理解中，军械库如何和其他展会相区分？您在面对纽约的藏家时，主要的考量是什么？

CAFA ART INFO: Except for the Armory Show, what other art fairs do you usually participate in each year? In your understanding, how does the Armory Show distinguish itself from others? What's your concern when dealing with collectors from New York?

Katie de Tilly: 我们每年通常会参加六个艺博会。但每年的情况都有所不同。除了军械库艺博会，我们还会参加巴塞尔迈阿密，巴塞尔香港，布鲁塞尔艺术节，巴黎艺术节，弗里兹大师展，还有韩国国际艺术节。我们会根据每一个艺术节来做出具体的决定，通常会考虑这个艺术节本身的历史或者那一年艺术节所引领的趋势。这一次史国瑞的作品与纽约的地理位置非常相关，所有照片都拍摄于哈德逊山谷的卡茨基尔山。

Katie de Tilly: We usually have six art fairs each year. It kind of changes every year. Besides, we've done Art Basel Miami, Art Basel Hong Kong, Art Brussels, Art Paris, Frieze Masters, and KIAF Art Seoul. So each decision is made for the specific fair, like the history of the art fair, and the specific trend of the year. This project that Shi Guorui has done is about the Hudson Valley in New York. All these photographs were shot around Catskill mountain. So it is very relevant to the location.

我还想说的是，纽约是全球做艺术品收藏做得最认真、最严肃的地方。这里的人们热爱艺术，他们对自己的收藏、研究以及所收藏作品背后的艺术史知识非常重视。因此在我们选择艺术家的时候，我们会更优先考虑那些已经被机构化了的艺术家。这已经是我们第四次参与军械库艺博会了，第一年的时候我们是呈现了一个更年轻的艺术家，但当时是在那个策展导向的单元。然而，后来我们搬来了主展场，我们就开始展出那些成名已久的艺术家了。

And I would also say New York is the most serious art collecting capital of the world. People really love art, and they're very serious about their collecting, their research, and their knowledge of acquired works. So in terms of selecting artists for the Armory Show, it is better to be institutionalized artists. So we've done armory now for four years. The first time participating in the Armory Show, we showed a younger artist, and it was in the curatorial section (the Focus) . However, since we moved to the major section, we started to show established artists.

二级市场转型：「视野」的二十世纪经典与当代艺术接洽

The transformation of the secondary market: 20th century classics contact with contemporary art in Perspectives

Richard Fleischner, Untitled,1980-81, Helwaser Gallery, New York

Anne-Marie Helwaser是一位战后艺术大师作品的专家。她于1989年在巴黎创办了Helwaser画廊，又在2008年搬迁到纽约。她在艺术品二级交易市场有二十年的工作经验。在与Anne-Marie Helwaser的访谈中，她介绍了在纽约她所拥有的Helwaser画廊如何在原先商业模式下接受更多当代艺术家，进军一级市场。

Anne-Marie Helwaser is a specialist in work of post-war masters. She founded Helwaser Gallery in Paris in 1989 and relocated it to New York in 2008. She has twenty years’ experience in the secondary art market. In an interview with Anne-Marie Helwaser, the Director of Helwaser Gallery in New York, she shared how she marched towards the primary market.

艺讯网：这是您第几次参加军械库艺术博览会？在您的观察下这个艺博会是如何与时俱进的？

CAFA ART INFO: How many times have you participated in the Armory Show? How do you see the art fair evolving?

Anne-Marie Helwaser: 我们已经连续四年参加军械库艺博会了。我注意到在「视野」这一环节有越来越多的当代艺术作品在加入进来。我们画廊代理抽象表现主义和波普艺术的作品有二十多年了，做的是二级市场。去年我们的画廊也与时俱进地开设了一个当代艺术的新分部。从那以后我们开始为更年轻的（处于事业中期的）艺术家做展览。五年前，如果你在这里有一个展厅，你只会展出二级市场的艺术品。而今天，你可以把不同时期的艺术品混在一起展出。把一个抽象表现主义的大师和一个当代艺术家放在一起变得很正常。这其实符合我们一贯对在艺术史中有重要位置的艺术家的兴趣，因为我们相信我们现在在代理的这些艺术家会被书写进入二十一世纪的艺术史。

Anne-Marie Helwaser: We've been with the Armory Show for four years. I notice that it is much more contemporary. So we were doing the secondary market of abstract expressionist art and pop art for 20 years. And last year our gallery opened a new branch focusing on contemporary art. Since then we started to do exhibitions for younger artists, I mean mid career artists. Five years ago, when you had a booth like this, you showed only secondary market art. And today, you can have this mix of both periods. It's very easy to mix an abstract expressionist with a contemporary artist. There is an opening. And I think it aligns with our interests in showing artists with historical significance, as we are now showing the ones who will be in the history books of the 21st century.

艺讯网：为什么一定要将选择范围限制在处于职业中期的艺术家呢？您曾考虑过培养一些新兴艺术家吗？

CAFA ART INFO: Why it has to be mid career artists? Have you ever considered showing emerging artists?

Anne-Marie Helwaser: 不，我只会考虑已经到达职业中期的艺术家。我们已经有很长的做二十世纪艺术品交易的历史了。当我们选择新的艺术家进来的时候， 我们会确保他们的艺术会成为艺术史的延续。如果不是美国艺术家，我们只会选那些已经有很强机构背景的（艺术家）。

Anne-Marie Helwaser: No, it has to be mid career artists. We already have a long history of doing 20th century art. And when we select artists, the idea is to make sure their art will be a continuation of art history. If they're not American, we will only look at those that already have a strong institutional presence.

Richard Fleischner, Figure on Bench, 1967, Helwaser Gallery, New York

艺讯网：既然您试图跳出美国艺术的框架，您有考虑过引进一些亚洲的艺术家吗？

CAFA ART INFO: As you are looking beyond American art, are you interested in showing more artists from Asia?

Anne-Marie Helwaser: 对，我也注意到近五年来军械库艺术博览会正在引入越来越多来自亚洲地区的画廊。我也有和这些画廊的代表互动，他们让我了解到很多关于亚洲市场的事情。目前，我们正在试图和一个韩国的画廊合作。我们想把美国的艺术家带去韩国展出，然后我们也想让他们带一些韩国的艺术家过来。合作是很重要的，但也需要时间慢慢去建立信任。

Anne-Marie Helwaser: Yes, as I noticed the Armory Show includes more and more galleries from Asia in the last five year. I have been interacting with their gallery representatives, and it helps me to understand the art market in Asia. Currently, we are trying to collaborate with a gallery from (South) Korea.

So we said, we should bring our artists in America and show them in Korea. And you could bring your artists here. It's important to partner, but you also need to trust. So it's a long process.

艺讯网：军械库艺博会主办方会组织一下聚会或活动方便来自世界各地的参展方互相认识吗？

CAFA ART INFO:  Does the Armory Show organize certain gatherings or events for the exhibitors from different countries to mingle?

Anne-Marie Helwaser: 没有，你需要自己主动去接触那些你感兴趣的画廊。这如你所见，二级市场的这个单元位于90号码头，这一定程度上限制了我们所能接触的人。这一区并没有亚洲的画廊。并且去和一些同我一样是主要经营二级市场的人合作也没有必要。当我们想要去合作的时候，我们尤其会考虑的是一级市场。因此我自己有时会走去94号码头的主展厅，和那里的人交流。

Anne-Marie Helwaser: No, you have to reach out on your own. As you can see, the section of the secondary market is located on Pier 90. It kind of limits the people who you can interact with. There is no Asian gallery on Pier 90. And also, there is no point for me to collaborate with the galleries around my booth who are also showing secondary market art. When I'm thinking about partnering, it's especially on the primary market. So I myself go to Pier 94, and talk to people.

文、图／吴佩悦 

 Text and Image by Peiyue Wu

(Except for special annotations)

编辑／Sue 

 Edited by Sue 

WeChat typeset by Emily

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 ——TRAVEL WITH ART—— 

为使真正的艺术爱好者能够有机会深入了解展览、作品、艺术家及背后的故事，CAFA艺讯网启动全新项目「TRAVEL WITH ART」，联合众多著名策展人、艺术家、设计师、建筑师、人文学者等一同为大家呈现多元的线上&线下艺术活动！

后台回复“看展”即可获取更多信息，加入艺讯友邻群。

后台输入“洞见”获取最火“洞见ART”全集！

For genuine art lovers who would like to know more about exhibitions, artworks, artists as well as stories behind them, CAFA ART INFO initiates a brand new project to invite you to visit exhibitions.

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