建筑师说 · 专访 | 独家对话隈研吾
“东方美学与对自然的尊重是分不开的”
“Oriental aesthetics are very much related to
the respect to nature”
“既然我们选择了柔软材质，那么对我们来说，
任何一种都有无限的潜力等我们发现。”
“We want to recreate soft materials and
any soft material has a big potential. ”
“对当前的建筑保持尊重的基础上，不要被束缚，
而是能创造出新的东西，有破才有立。”
“Respect former generation,
but destroy former generation.”
建筑师说 | 本期对话建筑师：隈研吾
▼ 隈研吾
隈研吾，日本著名建筑设计师，1954年生于日本神奈川县，1987年建立“空间设计”事务所，1990年创办隈研吾建筑都市设计事务所，并赢得了多项国内国际大奖，包括芬兰自然木造建筑精神奖(2002)、日本建筑学会东北宪章设计大奖(2000)和日本建筑学会奖(1997)等。
* 简介由隈研吾建筑事务所提供
著作
《十宅论》：日本有10个阶层，各个阶层都有自己固定的住宅风格。
《负建筑》：让建筑消失。
《再见．后现代》
《建筑的欲望之死》
代表作品
▼ 马头町広重美术馆
▼ 那须石头博物馆
▼ 长城脚下公社——竹屋
采访正文
01
不同尺度建筑的异同
对我们来说，项目无论大小对我们的创造力来说都有很重要的影响，所以尺度的区别不是重点，比如说，有时候小项目需要更多的时间和精力，在设计起初需要更多打磨建筑本身的动机，另外小的项目还可以作为新材料的试验场，所以说两种类型的项目对我们来说是同样重要的。
▲ 隈研吾2016年作品 拖车房
拖车房设计在尺寸和重量上有法律限制。在该项目中，为了扩大居住空间，构成房屋的面板向外突出，将它们变成桌子与户外连接，提出一种新的移动生活方式。
Q1. From exquisite teahouses to grand skyscrapers，your works involved many types and scales. In your opinion, what are the similarities and differences between designing "a small house" and "a big building"?
Basically, for us, to do small projects or big projects are both very necessary for our creativity. And the difference between two scales doesn’t matter for us. Sometimes on small projects, we need more time and more energy. But to do small projects is activate about motivation. And also in small projects, we can do experiments for new materials. So both projects are necessary for us.
02
哪一个建筑确立了当前的风格
我认为是北京的长城公社，那对我们而言是非常重要的一个项目。
那是我们在中国的第一个项目，我通过这个建筑与工程师合作，找到了竹子新的使用方法，也就是说在探索完善建筑与材料与自然的关系时，这个项目给了我新的灵感和方向，所以如果要选一个项目的话，我会选择长城公社。
Q2. Your designs are highly recognizable for the combination of natural and artificial elements. Which project to you, can be viewed as a milestone which defines your current style？
Maybe you know bamboo house in Beijing. That is very important for us. The bamboo house is our first project in China. And I worked with engineers to find some new way of using bamboo. So if I should pick up one project, I would pick up bamboo house.
03
最中意的材料与其潜力开发
我对于使用柔软的材料非常有兴趣，竹子，木材，包括我们最近尝试的一种新型纤维材料。
▲ 隈研吾2020年新作 exchange大楼，外立面使用了特制的木质细丝
建筑是为了供人使用的，而传统的钢材营造的氛围对人体来说却过于刚硬沉重，所以我们想要重塑软性的建筑材料，至于材料的潜力开发，既然我们选择了柔软材质，那么对我们来说，任何一种都有无限的潜力等我们发现。
Q3.Among all those amazing materials you’ve been skilled with, which one is your favorite? How do you maximize its potential, for example the bamboo？
I am really interested in using soft material, bamboo is soft, wood is soft, and also recently we often use fabric, the new type of fabric. Because I think concrete and steel are too hard and too heavy for human body. We want to recreate soft materials and any soft material has a big potential.
04
传统材料如何适应当今建筑发展趋势
传统材料与人们拥有漫长的共同生活历史，在19世纪以前，人们生活几乎完全由家庭自产的材料构成，到了20世纪，人们开始生产出新的材料。
所以，我想要为传统材料重新赋予生命，因为那些材料与我们已经相处了很长时间，对我们来说也十分重要，但是基于我们现在生活的快节奏社会，面对着很多共同的敌人，疾病，灾难，以及很多未知的情况正在发生。
这样的情况下只是单纯的重新启用传统材料当然是不可行的，我们必须在传统材料基础上使用现代科技加以辅助，这个传统与科技互补的过程，也是传统材料适应不断更迭的建筑时代的过程。
▲ 隈研吾2009年 酱油厂翻新项目中使用一种在南美洲发现的不易开裂的柱子
Q4.Today’s techniques are updating rapidly, especially the technology. How do you adapt traditional materials such as woods, bamboos and soft materials you mentioned to current and future trends？
Traditional material has a long history to living with human. And before the 19th century, people were living with the domestic and traditional material. And in the 20th century, there came unique materials as people have created some new materials.
I want to bring life to those traditional materials again, cause these materials have a long friendship with people and that is very important for us. But we need to add some technology because we are living in this very fast society and everything is developing so rapidly. And also we are facing some common enemies for example disease, disasters, and many huge problems are happening. So we should work with new technology to support traditional material.
05
日本当代建筑的经验
在现代主义期间，一些日本建筑师试着将传统建筑的特性与西方建筑的特点结合起来，而从材料，尺度，手法，空间这些具体方向看，日本传统建筑在这个时代已经完全消失了。
但是未来，我们可以将人体尺度，传统建筑中的亲密感，注入到新的建筑中，因为随着时代发展，我们有了更好的技术，比如说在20世纪，建筑的空间尺度普遍很大，很不人性化。
但现在，通过使用碳纤维，新型金属等新的材料，我们可以重新讨论人体尺度，而我们现在也确实在不断尝试，用当代的新材质重现适应如今多元生活的传统空间。
Q5.During the course of modernism，Japanese architects learnt from western theory as well as kept the local identity. Are there any experiences you would like to share about this?
During the Modernism period, some Japanese architects tried to combine the transability of Japanese traditional buildings with the transability of western buildings. But as for the material, and for the dimensions, for the skills, for the space, all these Japanese traditions totally disappeared in this period.
But in the future, we can bring the human-scale, the intimmate-scale traditional buildings back to the concrete buldings because we have new technology. And in the age of concrete in the 20th century, the space dimensions of the building are huge and very unhuman.
But now by using some new materials for example carboon fabrics and some new metals, we can bring back the human scale. And what we are trying to do is to recreate the traditional space to adapt the multiple life today by the use of new materials. That is very important.
06
全球化下当代日本建筑的启示
传统日本建筑，其实可以说就是在有限土地上建造的大量居住建筑群，因为在16-19世纪日本的人口相当庞大，那个时代东京人们的生活相对复杂，而且舒适度也不高，而这些材料却很好的适应了当代的建筑，我们可以从那时的东京的生活方式借鉴到很多经验。
▲日本建筑师Takamitsu Azuma建造的Tower House，建于1966年，占地面积很小，该房屋围绕六层楼梯生长，可提供65平方米的居住空间。该建筑已成为日本社会过去几十年来如何应对城市和社会变化的迷人写照。
Q6.What can we learn from the characteristics of Japenese contemporary architecture in the context of globalization?
The traditional japanese architecture is basically a resident in the dense place, because the population in Japan, in Tokyo was huge in 16,17 and 18 19 century.
And in fact the life in Tokyo in 16 17 century was bit sophisticated and it looked very uncomfortable, the kind of them living in the dense city, and these kind of materials can be adapted to contemporary buildings and we can learn many things from the way of life in 16 17 century’s Tokyo.
07
东方美学是什么
在我看来，东方美学与对自然的尊重是分不开的，正如佛教思想传达的也是与自然和环境密切的关系。在西方世界，人们总是尝试征服自然，这与东方思想差别是很大的，我们这一代的亚洲环境下，需要的正是我们一直以来秉承的与自然的相处之道，而另一方面，我认为这也是西方值得借鉴的思想之一。
▲ 在日本建筑圣保罗（Sao Paulo，2017年）和巴黎的安东尼· 克拉夫档案馆（Archives Antoni Clave，2017年）中，隈研吾将膨胀的铝网浸泡在浆状液体中，等它们干燥以后就成了和纸。
Q7.What is the essence of oriental aesthetics in your mind？
Oriental aesthetics are very much related to the respect to nature, and the main ideas of Buddhism are very related to the respect of nature and environment. In western world, people always try to dominate the nature, and the attitude of the western is very much different from the Asian attitude.
In our period, in the vision of Asian environment, Asian attitude is very much needed for us. And even for the western, the Asian attitude is very much needed, I think.
08
对学生的寄语
我给他们的建议，就是不要盲目抄袭现存的这一代建筑，而要试着去摧毁现在已存在的。
对当前的建筑保持尊重的基础上，不要被束缚，而是能创造出新的东西，有破才有立。
Q8. If there are a few words you'd like to share from your success to todays architecture students, what would that be? Some tips, some suggestions for your students?
As my advice to them, is don’t copy the former generation, try to destroy what the former generation established. I think it’s very important for our students. Respect former generation, but destroy former generation.
09
推荐的书
我其实更推荐一些其他领域相关的书，音乐，电影，那些书对建筑师来说是很重要的，建筑相关书籍涉及的知识是有限的，而那些对我们而言是远远不够的。
Q9. Is there any book in architecture or beyond architecture that you would recommend for architecture students to read?
I actually recommend books about other disciplines, the books about music, the books about cinema, the books about knowledge, that kinds of books are very important for architects. Architecture books are normally writing about the limited field, and that is not enough at all.
10
建筑之外的语言
对我来说音乐是很重要的，而相比理解音乐，乐理知识就显得次要了。懂得聆听音乐，感受音乐，才是理解音乐的真谛。
10.What is the language to you?
For me, music is very important. And for understanding music, the language is not so important. To hear the music, to feel the music, is the basic to understand music.
本期建筑师说特别专访非常荣幸能邀请到隈研吾大师，采访在3月30号上午，使用视频通话的形式完成，在短短不到一个小时的采访时间中，我们感受到了这位大师的建筑智慧，在当前新冠疫情的特殊时期，还与他探讨了关于城市建设方面的见解，我们也期待今后能与隈研吾大师有更多合作交流的机会。
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