这场外媒对任正非的采方曝露了孟晚舟案的内幕（中英双语）

面对外国媒体，任正非说了些什么？（中英双语）

以下为任正非近日接受媒体联合采访采访实录，王老师综合国内外媒体公开资源整理而成，翻译的一些译文处理在第一问中有所标注，供大家体会，未来更新再做进一步补充（中文原文原载于华为心声社区，英文原文原载于于南华早报，文本为华为官方渠道提供）：

1. 《Mobile World Live》 Joseph Waring ：您在军队的这段经历，怎样影响的您在华为的管理风格？现在华为在全球都面临着比较多的审查，华为与军方的这些联系，在怎样的程度上影响到华为的未来？

Q: Can you give a little background on how your experience in military shapes your management style with Huawei … and now that Huawei is under a bit of scrutiny worldwide, how are those ties with the military impacting Huawei’s future as it continues to grow?

任正非：在我入伍的时候，当时中国正处于文化大革命的动乱时代，工业、农业的运作已经完全混乱，国家处在极度困难之中，中国人在吃饭、穿衣的问题上都面临很大的困难。曾经在1962年时候我们每个人每年能分到的棉布只有1/3公尺左右，这块布是用来补衣服的。所以，我年轻时没有穿过像样的没有补丁的衣服。

Ren: I joined the military during China's Cultural Revolution. At that time, there was chaos almost everywhere, including in agriculture and the industry. The country was facing very difficult times. These difficulties were reflected in people's diets and clothing. I remember that, back then, at the most difficult of times, every Chinese person was allotted only one-third of a meter of cloth. That amount could be used only for patching. So I never wore clothes without patches when I was young.

当时中央希望要让中国每个人每年都能穿上一套新衣服，就从法国德布尼斯·斯贝西姆公司引进了世界最先进的化工设备，建立一个大型的化纤厂，希望通过生产化纤来给每个人提供一套化纤衣服。这个化纤厂在辽阳太子河边上，条件非常艰苦，当时，中国完全混乱了，调不动地方工程队伍，地方的工程队伍都不肯到那个艰苦地方去，所以中央只能调军队去修建这个化纤厂。

The central government hoped that every Chinese person could get at least one decent piece of clothing every year, so they decided to introduce the most advanced equipment from a French company called Technip Speichim and build a large synthetic fibre factory. This was used to produce some synthetic fibres with the hope that every Chinese person could be given synthetic fabric clothes. The factory was situated in a northeast city called Liaoyang, which is along a river called the Taizi River. The conditions there were very harsh. Back then, China was in complete chaos, and the central government was trying to mobilise local engineering teams for the construction of that factory. However, no team answered the call. Therefore, the government had to mobilise military teams to build the factory.

当时部队的工程能力比较低，像我这样刚刚毕业的大学生就得到了使用。部队进入施工现场时，数十平方公里的现场，没有一间房屋，部队全部都睡在草地上，当时是七、八月份。后来工厂拨款建了大批的土坯房，漏风、漏水。那段时间我的体会：一是，接触了世界最先进的技术；二是，吃着世界上最大的苦。当时法国这个化纤厂，自动控制水平是非常高的，至少当时全中国还没有这么先进的工厂，这是我第一次知道了什么叫世界先进技术，还学会了吃苦。我们住在这种土坯房中，既不抗冻，也不防风，最低温度可以达到零下28度。当时中国处于极度困难时期，肉和油的供应极少，东北老百姓每个月供应的食用油是3两，相当于150克。没有任何新鲜蔬菜，这些蔬菜都是在秋天把白菜和萝卜用一个很大的混凝土池腌制起来，做成酸菜和酸萝卜，那么就吃半年的酸菜酸萝卜。主要食物是高粱，而且是很难吃的杂交高粱。我们一边学习最先进的技术，一边过着最原始的生活，这就是那段时间的经历，用一个词总结，就是“冰火两重天”。

It was a very advanced set of equipment from the French company, and the engineering capabilities of the military were not up to the task. I had been to college, and people like me could play a role in that project. When we just arrived at the site, it was dozens of square kilometres, and there was no housing at all. So everyone slept on the grass. Later, the factory got some funding and built some shabby housing that provided little shelter from the rain and wind. It was minus 20-something degrees Celsius outside. You can image how harsh the conditions were. If you ask me how I felt back then, I would say: First, we had been given access to the world's most advanced technology. That French company had a very high level of automated controls that no Chinese companies had. This was the first time that I had learned what the world's most advanced technology looked like. Second, we learned to endure hardship. Our housing was very shabby, so we constantly felt cold as it could not protect us from the wind. Just imagine, the temperature could drop to minus 28 degrees Celsius. China was facing huge economic challenges at that time. The supply of meat and cooking oil was very limited. For ordinary people living in Northeastern China, their monthly supply of cooking oil was around 150g. There was no supply of fresh vegetables at all, so we had to pickle some vegetables like cabbages and radishes we got in autumn in large concrete pots, and rely on pickled foods for six months at a time. Our staple food was sorghum. It was far from delicious. So in a nutshell, we learned from the world's most advanced technology while living a life that could be seen as primitive. That is how I felt back then.

但那段时间，我过得很快乐。那时在其他地方读书太多是要受批判的，唯有在这个工厂还可以读一读书，因为完全搞不懂这些现代化设备。那时候我是连队的技术员，由于工作努力，后来晋升到一个20多人的小型建筑研究所当副所长，技术职级是副团级。我们那时的梦想，就是希望在改革开放大裁军之前，能够得到一个中校军衔再退伍，可惜没有实现。所以一直到现在，我都是一个没有获得军衔的退伍军人。

But I was happy then, because if you read too many books in other parts of the country, you could get criticised. The factory was probably one of the few places that people could read. We had to read to understand how this modern equipment worked. At the time, I was a technician of a company in the military, and then I became a deputy director of a small construction research institute with just twenty plus people. That is actually a title equivalent to a deputy-regimental level. My dream back then was to reach the military rank of Lieutenant-Colonel before China disbanded its military forces. Unfortunately, that did not happen. So I'm just a veteran without a military rank.

2. 《金融时报》Yuan Yang：根据记录，您在1982年参加了中国共产党的党代会，你为何没有参加其他的党代会呢？华为和中国共产党的关系是怎样的？

Q: It is reported that you participated in the National Congress of the Communist Party of China back in 1982. How come you attended that conference, and what is the relationship between Huawei and the Communist Party of China today?

任正非：我们在担负最先进的化纤厂的建设过程中，检验先进设备缺少一种仪器，这种仪器沈阳自动化研究所的一个技术员在国外看见过，告诉我是什么样子。我就用数学推导的方式把仪器的设计推导了出来，但是我对推导并没有把握，就去请教过东北大学的李诗久教授，来确定我的推导是否合理。得到他的肯定以后，我把这个仪器发明出来了。当时正好国家粉碎了“四人帮”，开始搞经济建设，国家在寻找好的案例证明科学技术是有用的，我的这个小发明就被夸大成了大发明，被各种报刊、杂志、电影纷纷宣传。由于广泛的宣传影响，我有幸被全国科学大会选中，参加了全国科学大会。

Ren: When we built the synthetic fibre factory, we ran short of a kind of instrument used to test the advanced equipment. One technician with the Shenyang Automation Research Institute told me that he saw similar instruments when he travelled abroad, and he described to me what they looked like. Through mathematical inference, I was able to produce a design of the instrument in question. But I was not 100% sure if my mathematical inference was correct, so I went to consult a professor with the Northeastern University of China. His name was Li Shijiu. I wanted to confirm whether the inference made sense. The professor affirmed my inference. In the end, I invented that instrument. That is also the time when the “Gang of Four” was smashed and the country was trying to find readily available examples to demonstrate that science and technology were valuable. My little invention was exaggerated into something really big and it was promoted in various media outlets, including newspapers, magazines, movies, etc. And because of such massive publicity, luckily I was chosen to be a member of the National Science Conference.

大家都知道，在那个时代，不是党员连炊事班班长都当不了。我参加全国科学大会，却不是党员，上级很奇怪，所以组织给了帮助，让我成为了党员。当时我不能加入共产党的原因，不是我个人工作表现不好，而是我的家庭原因，当时我父亲是作为“走资派”被关进牛棚的。大家都知道，一个革命的知识分子，他的历史远远比一个工农干部要复杂得多，共产党的严格审查致使他十年没有平反，所以我不能入党。

If you are aware, that is a time when you had to be a Communist Party member even to become the head of a cooking team in the military. I was selected to attend the National Science Conference, but I was not a Communist Party member. My supervisor felt that was really strange, so with the help of party organizations, I became a Communist Party member. The reason I was not a member was not because I did not do my job well enough. It was because of my family background. 

My father was labelled as a “capitalist roader”. For this, he was actually locked up in a cow barn at one point in time. You know, for an educated person back then, an intellectual, his or her background or history would be much more complicated than that of a cadre among farmers and workers. It was because of such close scrutiny of my father that he was in such a difficult situation for over 10 years before his name was cleared. And because of this family connection, there was no possibility for me at the time to become a Communist Party member.

我1978年入党后，当时国家提倡干部要四化（年轻化、专业化、知识化、革命化），我又符合条件，就推荐我去参加十二大选举，我就被选上了。可惜那时候太年轻，对党在这个大时期的大改革什么也没听明白，这是十分遗憾，我那时是个单纯技术观点的“呆子”。我是永远地热爱祖国、拥护中国共产党的，但是我绝不会做伤害世界任何国家的事情。

After I joined the party in 1978, China encouraged leaders to have “four qualities”: young, professional, educated, and revolutionary. I happened to meet the requirements, and was recommended to be a member of the 12th National Congress of the Communist Party of China. And in the end, I was selected. Unfortunately, I was too young to truly understand what the big reform was all about in that historical moment. That was really a pity. I was a complete technical geek back then. Today, I still love my country. I support the Communist Party of China. But I will never do anything to harm any other nation.

3. 《美联社》Joe McDonald：我们知道过去两周或者最近一两个月以来您面临了很大的压力，所以今天很感谢您和我们交流。我的问题和安全相关，最近我们看到很多国家政府，包括美国、澳大利亚政府提出的安全的担忧，其实他们并不怀疑华为技术的可靠性，而是看起来担心华为，甚至是担心所有中国公司。因为毕竟在中国，如果共产党要求企业做一些事情，企业必须服从。所以我想知道对于华为的外国客户，您能给他们怎样的保证，华为能够保护他们的网络安全，保护他们信息的机密性？另外考虑到中国法律的环境，您的担保有怎样的限制？

Q: The security concerns raised by governments such as the US and Australia are not about the capabilities of Huawei's technologies. These governments appear to be concerned that every company in China, fundamentally, is under the authority of the Communist Party of China. If the Communist Party requires Huawei to do something, the company has to obey. I'm wondering, what assurances can you give foreign customers that Huawei is able to protect the safety of their networks or protect the confidentiality of information? Under the legal circumstances of China, what can Huawei say to customers about the limits of its abilities to give assurances about that?

任正非：首先，过去30年来，华为公司在170多个国家，为30多亿人提供服务，保持了良好的安全记录。其次，华为是一个独立的商业公司，我们在网络安全和隐私保护上是坚决站在客户这边的。我们决不会去危害任何国家，伤害任何人。第三，中国外交部也做过澄清，中国没有任何法律要求企业安装后门。华为公司和我个人也从来没有收到过任何这样的要求。

Ren: The first point I want to make is that over the past 30 years, our products have been used in more than 170 countries and regions, serving more than 3 billion users in total. We have maintained a solid track record in security. Huawei is an independent business organisation. When it comes to cybersecurity and privacy protection, we are committed to siding with our customers. We will never harm any nation or any individual. Secondly, China's Ministry of Foreign Affairs has officially clarified that no law in China requires any company to install back doors. Neither Huawei, nor I personally, have ever received any requests from any government to provide improper information.

《美联社》Joe McDonald：很抱歉我不是想跟您在这个问题上去争论。但是美国政府也好，澳大利亚政府也好，他们会说您是卖网络设备给客户的，任何一个客户选厂商的时候，他必须是完全信任你，因为它是把整个国家电信网络基础设施运行最机密的数据放到你的手上了。如果说中国的国安部找到华为一定要求为他们做一些事情，华为能做什么？华为将做什么？来保证华为对您的客户或者所在国不是一个危险？

Q: Suppose, for instance, the Ministry of State Security were to come to Huawei to ask Huawei to give information about a foreign country to the Ministry of State Security. Legally, there's nothing Huawei can do to refuse. Huawei must obey. So what can and will Huawei do to reassure customers?

任正非：那我把公司卖给你。如果你买不起的话，我就要把这家公司关掉。我们已经明确，我们只是以客户为中心，绝不做危害客户的任何事情。我认为苹果公司给我们做了榜样，我们就向苹果学习。当我们面临要侵犯客户利益的时候，宁可关闭公司，也不会被利益所驱使，而去做不应该做的事。

Ren: Can I sell Huawei to you? If you cannot afford [to buy Huawei], I would probably have to shut the company down. Customer-centricity has been at the very core of Huawei's business operations since our founding. We will never do anything to harm the interests of our customers. Apple is an example we look up to in terms of privacy protection. We will learn from Apple. We would rather shut Huawei down than do anything that would damage the interests of our customers in order to seek our own gains.

4. 《华尔街日报》Dan Strumpf：我们知道您的女儿一个多月前在加拿大被扣押，想了解一下您对于整个事情的感受？第二个问题，您是不是觉得孟女士是因为是您的家庭成员之一才成为这个事情的目标？

Q: It's been just more than one month since your daughter Meng was detained in Canada. I was just wondering how you're feeling knowing this was an [extradition] request? And tell me if you feel that your daughter has been targeted because she is your family member and because of her position in Huawei?

任正非：孟晚舟的事情已经进入了司法程序，我在这里就不再做评述。作为孟晚舟的父亲，我是十分牵挂她的。在这个事件和这段时间里，我非常感谢尊敬的威廉姆·亨克（William Ehrcke）法官的公正，感谢约翰·吉布卡司利（John Gibb Carsley）检察官和凯利·斯卫福特（Kerri Swift）检察官。感谢加拿大阿诺特（Alouette）女子监狱的人性化管理，以及狱友对晚舟的善待。我也感谢中国政府维护孟晚舟作为中国公民的权益，为她提供了领事保护。我相信加拿大和美国的法律体系的公开、公平、公正，以及后续会给出公正的结论。所有事件的证据将来全部公开以后，我们再来对这个事情判断。

Ren: As you must be aware, the case of Meng Wanzhou right now is in legal proceedings. So, we'd rather leave it to legal proceedings. I will not provide much comment about it here. 

As Meng Wanzhou's father, I miss her very much. And I'm deeply grateful to the fairness of the Honourable Justice, William Ehrcke. I'm also much grateful to Prosecutor John Gibb-Carsley and Prosecutor Kerri Swift. I also thank the Alouette Correctional Centre for Women for its humane management. Thanks to Meng Wanzhou's cellmates, for treating her kindly. 

I also appreciate the consular protection that the Chinese government has provided in safeguarding the rights and interests of Meng Wanzhou as a Chinese citizen. I trust that the legal systems of Canada and the United States are open, just, and fair, and will reach a just conclusion. We will make our judgment after all the evidence is made public.

5. 《彭博社》高原： 您作为一个父亲，怎样看待女儿被这样对待？是不是因为孟晚舟是您的家人，所以美国和加拿大政府才会做这样的事情？您自己的想法是怎样的？

Q: You are the father of Ms. Meng. And now your daughter has been treated like this. You mentioned just now you trust the legal proceedings. But is it because Meng is part of your family that she is being targeted by US and Canada? What's your personal feeling?

任正非：我没有看到美国司法部和加拿大司法部沟通的邮件，如果他们把邮件全部公开的话，我才能猜测他们是不是因为我的女儿才这样。因此将来还是看法庭公开他们之间往来的沟通，我才知道是不是针对我女儿。

Ren: You know, I certainly do not have access to the email correspondences between the American Department of Justice and the Canadian Department of Justice. Maybe in the future when they make this evidence public, I will see whether it is because Meng is my daughter that she is being targeted. We will wait to see more evidence that is made public in the proceedings that follow.

6. 《CNBC》Arjun Kharpal：刚才您回答美联社记者的问题，您提到苹果的例子，我记得当时是美国相关机构要求苹果提供用户数据，然后苹果告上了法院，您指的是这个吗？也就是说中国政府如果要求从华为的网络中抽取数据，华为也会提起上诉吗？那第二个问题，您有没有跟美国的相关政府机构进行一些沟通？有的话，主要是哪些方面、哪些内容？

Q: You referred earlier to the case when Apple was asked to hand over evidence from an iPhone and they took it to court. Is that what you will do if there was a request from the Chinese government for data from the networks? Just a second one, let's say, topic. What kind of correspondence do you have with the US authorities around some of the other engagements that may let you back in the market? What have the conversations been? 

任正非：首先，我们跟美国政府没有沟通的管道，互相不理解。至于将来，如果出现网络安全方面的事情，我已经讲得很清楚了，我们绝不会做侵害客户利益的事情。

Ren: We don't have any channels for communicating with the US government, and, honestly, we don't know much about each other. Regarding what would happen if the implied cyber-security case occurred, I believe I have made myself very clear: We will never harm the interests of our customers.

7. 《财富》Eamon Barrett：外国对于华为安全的担心，一方面是由于您的军方经历，另外一方面担忧来源于中国政府或多或少是以某种形式持有华为的。华为对外宣传完全是员工持股的公司，但是对外股权和结构上却是一个秘密，这方面的信息公开或者上市，是可以很大程度上缓解这种担忧的。华为的持股结构，为什么如此神秘？

Q: A couple of points have been raised already regarding issues which foreign nations may consider as causes of concern for Huawei, namely military background, affiliations with the Communist Party, etc. Another primary concern foreign nations have is that the government somehow has ownership for Huawei. Huawei claims to be an employee-owned company, but the exact way that the shares are spread out among its employees is still secret. If you were to make that information public or even make Huawei public, you would surely have resolved all the suspicions, so why do you keep the shareholding structure private? 

任正非：大家都看到，资本至上的公司成功的故事非常少，资本是比较贪婪的，如果它有利益就赶快拿走，就失去对理想的追求。正因为我们是一个私营企业，所以我们才会对理想有孜孜不倦的追求。我们从几百人开始就对准一个“城墙口”冲锋，几千人、几万人、十几万人还是对准同一个“城墙口”冲锋。对着这个“城墙口”，我们每年研发经费的投入已经达到150~200亿美元，未来五年总研发经费会超过1000亿美元。资本公司是看好一个漂亮的财务报表，我们看好的是未来的产业结构，因此我们的决策体系是不一样的，我们很简单的，为人类进入信息社会而奋斗。

Ren: First, I think there are very few success stories where public companies become strong and big. Capital tends to be greedy. Whenever there is an immediate interest, capital tends to take it away, and that would certainly compromise the long-term pursuit of ideals. We are a private company, so we are able to remain committed to our long-term ideals. 

Ever since we were a relatively small company, with just several hundred employees, we have focused all of our efforts in one direction. Even as we grew larger, to several thousand, tens of thousands, or even today with over 100,000 employees, we have maintained the same focus as we move forward. 

Our annual R&D investment has reached 15 to 20 billion US dollars. Over the next five years, we are going to invest a total of more than 100 billion US dollars into R&D. Public companies, however, are unlikely to do this, because they focus on making their balance sheets look good. What matters more to Huawei is the future industry structure. Our decision-making system is different from public companies. It is very simple, and we are working hard to make the information society a reality. 

同时也告诉你们一个信息：我们公司有96768名持股员工，前几天也就是1月12日，在170个国家、416个投票点完成了新一届持股员工代表的选举，这个选举过程历时一年，先是对治理章程的宣传，让员工明白公司的治理架构是什么；然后分层分级地推选候选人，每层候选人都要自我宣讲，争取持股员工认同他，他不是被选上，只是被提名。这些提名再被汇总到更上一层组织，再更广泛争取民意，完成一定的收敛。这个收敛以后的名单再会由各级高层组织审议和协商，听取民意和调查，然后再次收敛，最后向选举委员会汇报，汇报之后再返回去，收敛到两百多人，然后放到信息平台上，公开征求意见，再进行投票。确定候选人名单。

Here, I also have a piece of information to share with you. We have 96,768 shareholding employees. Just a few days ago on January 12, we completed the election of the new representatives of shareholding employees at 416 polling stations across over 170 countries and regions. The entire process of this election lasted about one year. We first communicated our Articles of Governance to all employees. Through those efforts, our employees became more familiar with how the corporate governance structure of this company works. 

Then, we nominated candidates at different tiers of our organisation. All candidates then gave some presentations to win the support of the constituency. At that time, they were only nominated, not yet elected. Then the list of nominated individuals was put together, and submitted to a higher-level department for review. Feedback from more shareholding employees was collected. After that, we had a certain level of convergence, meaning the list of individuals was narrowed down. And then that shortlist was subject to reviews, discussions, and deliberations at higher levels of the company, which also took into account the opinions of people around those individuals. The shortlist then got shorter. This list was reported to the Election Committee, then it was sent back again, further polished and narrowed down to a list of roughly 200+ individuals. This list was published on our internal information sharing platform to collect employee feedback, and then the list of candidates was finalised.

1月12日，我们完成了全球的投票，这几天信使们正背着这些选票往回飞，持股员工代表大会就是公司的最高权力机构。公司所有权的归属是96768名持股员工，这些人要么是华为在职员工，要么是曾经在华为工作多年后的退休员工，没有一个非华为员工持有一美分股票，没有一个外部机构持有一美分股票，政府任何部门没有一美分股票。公司专门有一个保存股权数据的库房，欢迎记者们去参观、抽查。

On January 12, we completed the voting – the election – of our shareholding employee representatives around the world. Over the past few days, our messengers around the world have been taking those votes back to Shenzhen. We are going to calculate the votes on our electronic platform, and audit the authenticity of those votes. Eventually, we will come up with 115 representatives for all shareholding employees. The Representatives' Commission, consisting of these 115 employees, is the highest decision-making authority in Huawei, and the company is owned by our 96,768 shareholding employees.

Our shareholding employees are currently working at Huawei or are retired former employees who have worked at Huawei for years. There is no single individual that owns even one cent of Huawei's shares without working at Huawei. There is no external institution or government department that owns our shares, not even one cent's worth. We have a shareholding registry that lists the shares held by our shareholding employees. Journalists who are interested are welcome to take a look at it.

我创业的时候并没有钱。我从军队转业，我们夫妻二人一共拿到3000元左右人民币的复员费。当时深圳要求公司注册资本最低是两万元人民币，我通过集资的方式获得21000元的资金，注册了这家公司。今天，我个人在华为持有股票占总股数为1.14%，我知道乔布斯的持股比例是0.58%，说明我的股权数量继续下降应该是合理的，向乔布斯学习。

I myself am the founder of this company. At the time when I wanted to found Huawei, I did not have enough money. When I got demobilised from the military, my wife and I received a total of CNY3,000 as compensation from the military. At the time, a minimum of CNY20,000 was required as registered capital to start a company in Shenzhen. By pooling funds from different people, I managed to get CNY21,000 to register Huawei. 

Today, the total number of shares that I personally have within Huawei is 1.14 per cent, and the stake that Steve Jobs had in Apple was 0.58 per cent. That means there is still potential for my stake to be further diluted. I should learn from Steve Jobs.

8. 《金融时报》Yuan Yang：去年非盟中心的通信被攻破了，华为为非盟大楼提供了相关设备，请问华为对此如何回应？如果有任何中国人或者外国人在中国违法犯罪，在华为手机里留下了一些线索，请问华为是否会配合中国司法机关来解决这个问题？再例如，不管是中国人还是外国人，在海外犯法了，华为应该怎么做？

Q: Last year, it was reported that the African Union said there was infiltration from the Chinese side on their equipment based in Ethiopia. And we also learned that some of the equipment used by the African Union was provided by Huawei. Do you have any comment on that? You have said that Huawei will never harm the interest of any customer or individual. Suppose one, either Chinese or foreigner did something illegal here in China, and they left some trace on their Huawei smartphone, for example. Huawei, just like any other company, is supposed to provide support and cooperate with public security authorities because it is required by the law. Then in that case, would Huawei cooperate? Then, imagine that one Chinese or one foreigner committed a crime in countries outside of China, what would be Huawei's actions in those cases? 

任正非：无论是华为的中国籍员工或非中国籍员工，只要违反当地法律，我们都会配合司法机构调查。我们坚决反对员工任何违反法律的行为。公司内部有非常庞大的内外合规管理系统，用来预防这些事件，违反后，有纪律部门来处置。华为公司未来的规模可能还会更大，云时代的网络社会更复杂，如果我们不用纪律来约束自己的行为，可能我们会不堪重负。

Ren: For Huawei employees, whether they are Chinese or non-Chinese, if they violate local laws, we'll always cooperate with the investigations. We stand strongly against any behaviour that violates laws and regulations. Within Huawei, we have a very sound internal and external compliance management system. The idea is to prevent those wrongdoings or bad things from happening. Those who commit violations will be disciplined by our compliance department. Huawei may grow even bigger in the future. In the cloud era, our society is becoming more and more complex. If we do not govern our behaviour through discipline, we might get overwhelmed. 

至于非盟的网络被攻破，和华为没有关系。

For the breach of equipment used by the African Union, it had nothing to do with Huawei.

9. 《财富》Eamon Barrett：跟着刚才您提到的纪律措施这个问题，上周华为波兰子公司一名员工涉嫌间谍罪被拘捕，我们现在知道华为已经开除了这名员工，而且是并没有等待任何的证据或者法庭审判的情况下就已经开除。联想到孟女士的例子，在12月份的时候被扣押，从华为所有的努力来看，似乎是假设孟女士是无辜的，那为什么在两个案子上的处理不同？为什么在波兰的案子上直接被开除，而在加拿大的案子上分厘必争？

Q: Following up on that and about how Huawei implements its disciplinary actions, just last week, a member of Huawei's staff was arrested in Poland on suspicion of spying. Huawei has fired that employee already without waiting for the trial, without waiting for the evidence to move forward. Whereas in Canada, where Meng Wanzhou was arrested in December, Huawei appears to at least stand by her and is still, in a sense, putting trust in her innocence. So why was the decision made to fire the employee in Poland? Why has that action not been taken in Canada?

任正非：这两个案件都涉及正在进行的法律程序，除了公司已正式声明的内容之外，我无法发表更多的意见。

Ren: Both cases are in the judicial process, and I'm not in a position to make further comments other than the information available from our official statements.

10. 《彭博社》高原：回到华为公司业务层面，我想知道最近某些国家考虑到网络安全而停用华为的设备，对华为本身的业务有哪些影响？华为未来会有哪些动作，或者您自己觉得华为应该怎样做，在未来的欧洲及美国等一些发达国家、五眼国家这些地方更好地进行正常业务？

Q: In light of recent developments, especially where some European countries have also stopped using Huawei's equipment based on the concerns on cybersecurity. What impact will this have on Huawei's business? What actions and plans does Huawei have in mind or what do you think Huawei should be doing to address this kind of situation and to sustain its business in those markets, like Europe, US, and other Five Eyes countries?

任正非：首先，客户有接受我们的，也有不接受我们的，不是现在才存在这个问题，过去也有这个问题。如果不接受我们，只是少数议员和官员的意见，他们不代表政府规定，我们要积极去沟通。如果上升到政府规定，那我们就不在这个国家进行销售。

Ren: First, it has always been the case that some customers accept Huawei and others don't. This is nothing new at all. If only a handful of congressmen decide that Huawei should not be accepted, then that does not represent the entire government. We can reach out to talk with the right stakeholders. If those individual opinions become orders coming from a government, then we may have to stop our sales there.

围绕现在的争论点是5G，4G以下大家还没有争论。没有争论的地区的产品，我们还要继续销售。有少数国家决定不再购买我们的产品，我们就把愿意购买我们设备的国家做好，用优秀的网络说明我们是值得信任的，这也是一个技术上的和平竞赛，我认为这是公平的。

One of the major topics currently in question is 5G. If you look at 4G, I do not believe there was any controversy or debate about it. So, for products where there is no such debate, we will continue working to drive our sales. Some countries have decided not to buy equipment from Huawei. Therefore, we can shift our focus to better serve countries that welcome Huawei. We can build high-quality networks in those countries to prove that we are trustworthy. Therefore, it's like a peaceful race from a technical point of view, and I think that is fair.

11. 《美联社》Joe McDonald：我们知道前期中国政府出于国家安全方面的原因，逮捕了两名加拿大人。昨天我们看到新闻报道，中国法院针对加拿大一位涉嫌毒品走私的人，判处了死刑，现在有一些中国以外的人暗示被捕的两个人本质上就是中国政府抓的两个人质，是回应加拿大政府对您的女儿孟女士的扣押，包括死刑的判决可能也受到这件事的影响，所以他们似乎在暗示不管是公司也好，还是您个人也好，都是中国政府通过抓几个人质或是通过政治影响毒品走私的案子在帮助华为，对此您有什么样的感想？

Q: China’s foreign minister arrested two Canadian citizens on national security charges. Yesterday, a court pronounced a death sentence for a Canadian who was accused of drug charges. Some people outside of China suggested that these two Canadians were detained basically as hostages in connection with the arrest of Meng Wanzhou in Canada, and the drug case might have been influenced by that case. How do you feel having people say this sort of thing about your company or that you are personally connected to the Chinese government taking hostages to help you or that there might be some political influence on this drug case to help your company? How does that make you feel?

任正非：我不知道这件事情的来龙去脉。

Ren: First, I don't know the whole story about this case, and it is not related to Huawei in any way.

12. 《华尔街日报》Dan Strumpf：我们看到华为5G未来发展受到一些新的限制措施，下一步有可能受限制的范围更广。上周波兰的官员也表示，北约国家应该针对华为发布统一立场，所以考虑到这些可能受到的限制措施，华为将有很大一部分市场可能进不去。不管是从商业的角度，还是从声誉的角度，这对华为意味着什么？华为未来如何应对？

Q: There are a number of countries taking a lead from apparently the United States to put new restrictions on Huawei's participation in 5G, and perhaps even more broad restrictions on top of that. I was just wondering, last week Polish officials stated they would like a unified position with Nato with regards to Huawei. In light of these new potential restrictions, what does this mean for Huawei knowing that it might be effectively locked out from a significant chunk of the world's telecommunications networks in the future, both from a business sense and a reputational sense? And how will Huawei contend with these restrictions?

任正非：首先，波兰的提议是否能起到作用，我不知道。因为波兰这个国家力量很小，（不确定）能否有这么大的推动。德国、法国可能影响要大一些。波兰的企业能不能起到作用，我现在还不知道。即使波兰能实现它的想法，对我们公司也并不重要。因为华为不是上市公司，我们不需要一个漂亮的财务报表。当这些国家不买我们的产品的时候，我们就适当收缩，只要能养活自己的员工，我们就有未来。

Ren: To start with, I'm not sure how far this proposal will go, and whether or not Poland is able to push it through. I think countries like France and Germany might have a greater say in Nato. So I'm not sure if Poland can get its proposal accepted. Even if they get what they want, it does not matter so much to Huawei. Because, as you know, we are not a public company – we aren't overly concerned about beautiful numbers, or a nice-looking balance sheet. If we are not allowed to sell our products in certain markets, we would rather scale down a bit. As long as we can feed our employees, I believe there will always be a future for Huawei.

我们每年研发投入150亿到200亿美金，投入强度在世界排名前五。我们已经获得授权专利87,805件，其中在美国的核心技术专利是11,152件。我们参加了360多种标准组织，贡献了54,000多件提案，在通讯领域我们的能力是世界最强的。所以我相信，不选择华为的国家和选择了华为的国家在将来会有对比的，我们不能限制他们的选择。

As I mentioned, right now our R&D investment averages 15–20 billion US dollars per year. That puts Huawei in the top 5 position across all industries in the world in terms of R&D intensity. In total, we have been granted 87,805 patents. In the United States, we have registered 11,152 core technology patents. We are actively involved in 360+ standards bodies, where we have made more than 54,000 proposals. So we are the strongest in terms of telecommunications capabilities. I believe people will make their own comparison in the end between countries that choose Huawei and countries that don't work with Huawei. Of course, there is no way we can control their choice.

华为在5G上做了很多努力，现在已签订了30多个5G合同，发货25000个基站，2570项5G专利。我们只要把产品做好，总会有人想买的；产品不好，再怎么宣传，别人都不会买。我们唯一能做的就是简化内部管理，让内部集中精力把产品做好，把服务做好，这才是我们真正应对这个变化世界的永不改变的方法。

In terms of 5G, we have signed 30-plus commercial contracts today, and we have already shipped 25,000 5G base stations. We have 2,570 5G patents. I believe that, as long as we develop very compelling products, there will be customers who will buy them. If your products are not good, no matter how strong you go for publicity, nobody will buy them. So what matters to Huawei more is working to streamline our internal management, improve our products, and improve our services. I think that is what we should work on to address the challenges of this changing world. 

世界上做5G的厂家就那么几家，做微波的厂家也不多。能够把5G基站和最先进的微波技术结合起来，世界上只有华为一家能做到。基站不需要光纤就可以用微波超宽带回传，这是一种非常经济、非常科学的方式。它特别适合地广人稀的农村，不要认为农村就是穷的地方，美国大量的别墅区就是很分散的高档农村，没有光纤的话，它怎么看8K电视？如果不靠华为，它需要非常高的成本才能实现，到时不是这些国家禁止华为的5G，而是求华为把这种5G卖给它。当然，华为是以客户为中心，有可能还是会卖的。

There are only several companies in the world working on 5G infrastructure equipment, and not many companies are engaged in microwave technology. Huawei is the only company in the world that can integrate 5G base stations with the most advanced microwave technology. With that capability, our 5G base stations don't even need fibre connections. Instead, they can use superfast microwave to support ultra-wide bandwidth backhauls. This is a compelling solution that makes a lot of economic sense. It works best for sparsely populated rural areas. 

We should not presume that rural areas are poor. A lot of villa districts in the US tend to be in the countryside. Without fibre, how can they enjoy an 8K resolution TV experience in the future? If Huawei is not involved in this, these districts may have to pay very high prices in order to enjoy that level of experience. By then, things might become very different. Those countries may voluntarily approach Huawei and ask Huawei to sell them 5G products rather than banning Huawei from selling 5G systems. We are a company that is customer-centric; therefore I think it is possible that we will sell our equipment to them.

13. 《CNBC》Arjun Kharpal：您之前提到，如果中国政府要求您提供网络里面的数据，或者在设备里面安装后门，您会明确的拒绝，不会去服从这样的要求。但我们知道您也是一个共产党员，你怎么才能够拒绝政府或者党对您提出的要求，以什么样的方式去跟这样的要求进行斗争？面向您的客户，你通过什么样的保证让他们放心，说“出现这样的事情，我不会去服从”？

Q: You said that if there was a request by the government to access data, to create back doors and networks, then you would deny it. You would not comply. Considering that you are a member of the Communist Party, how could you deny what they are asking for? What means do you have to actually fight against any request from the Chinese government to do any of these things? What assurance would you be able to give to your customers that if there was a request for something along those lines you would actually be able to fight it?

任正非：我们公司是一家商业公司，商业公司的价值观是以客户为中心，所以我必须遵守商业规则。至于我个人的政治信仰，和我们商业行为不一定有密切关系。所以我刚才讲的已经非常清晰，就是坚决不会做这个事。今天的采访通过报纸登出去以后，未来20~30年，也许我还活着的时候，大家会记得用这句话来验证我的行为。

Ren: We are a company, and we are a business entity. The values of a business entity are such that it must be customer-centric and the customer always comes first. We are a business organisation, so we must follow business rules. Within that context, I can't see close connections between my personal political beliefs and the business actions we are going to take as a business entity. I think I already made myself very clear earlier. We will certainly say no to any such request. After writing this quote in your story, maybe 20 or 30 years down the road, if I am still alive, people will consider this quote and check my behaviour against it, as well as the behaviour of our company.

《CNBC》Arjun Kharpal：接着问一个问题，之前我们提到苹果的例子，他们不服从政府的要求，甚至把政府告到法庭。中国有没有这样的法律制度给华为这样一种可能？

Q: Like you mentioned, Apple went to court against the government. Is there a system here such that you can take the government to court to fight such requests?

任正非：我不执行政府的要求，应该是政府来告我，而不是我去告政府。政府告不告我，我就不知道了。

Ren: If I or Huawei deny those requests, I think it should be the government in question that files litigation against Huawei, not the other way around. Whether or not the government would file such litigation, I don't know.

14. 《Mobile World live》Joseph Waring：我们现在看到，中美之间似乎不仅仅只是贸易战，甚至有人说看到了新冷战的苗头。想问一下，其实过去我们看无线通讯技术的阵营主要是两派，一个是GSM，一个是CDMA，您能不能预测一下未来有没有可能出现两种技术阵营：一个是中国主导的技术阵营，加上美国主导的技术阵营，比如手机平台上，我们有安卓的平台，也有iOS平台。

Q: The trade war developing with the US seems to have moved beyond just a trade war, and the term “cold war” has come up a bit. Looking at the technology camps – GSM and CDMA, years ago I participated in CDMA. What are your thoughts on the two technology camps? Do the US and China lead these camps in technology, which is facing tailwinds similar to what we see in mobile platforms like Android and iOS?

任正非：我们这个世界曾经在铁路的建设上走过窄轨、标准轨和宽轨共存的时代，这给世界的运输行业增添了非常多的麻烦。在通讯领域也有多标准的时代，给网络建设增加了非常多的成本，3G、4G都是这个问题。为了使通讯网络能够统一起来，我们共同在5G上达成了一个标准，这就是为迎接人类社会走向一个智能社会打下了基础。如果人为地把它分为两个世界，我认为对世界智能社会的进步是有害的。技术科学家的理想和政治家的智慧会决定人类社会的未来。我个人是坚决支持世界建立统一标准的。

Ren: I want to use the example of railways to answer this question. We once had diversified standards, with a narrow track, standard track, and wide track. This added many difficulties to the transportation industry throughout the world. Similarly, in the area of communication, we also have gone through a period where different standards coexisted. That also increased the deployment costs of the networks. We have seen that for 3G and 4G. In order to unify communications networks, we have worked hard to come up with a unified global standard. I think the 5G standard serves as a very good foundation for humanity to move toward an intelligent world. Arbitrarily dividing technology into two different camps will only harm the interests of the world. I believe the ideals of the technological community and scientists, as well as the wisdom of political figures coming together, will determine the future of humanity. Personally, I strongly support unified global standards.

15. 《华尔街日报》Josh Chin：有加拿大人在中国被扣押，包括被判处死刑，您刚刚提到这和华为无关，但在外界有些人看来就是觉得有关系。您觉得这个事件是有助于孟女士被释放还是有负面影响？另外请问，您和孟女士之间个人的关系怎么样？这个关系投射到华为的工作环境之下是什么样的情况？

Q: In the case of the Canadian who was just sentenced to death. I know some of these cases don't have anything to do with Huawei, but the perception is that they do have a connection to Huawei. I'm wondering if you could comment on whether you think this helps or hurts Madam Meng's chances for her release. And then, on that, I just wanted to talk a little bit about your personal relationship with Madam Meng, as your daughter, and how that is translated into the workplace at Huawei.

任正非：首先我不清楚这些事件之间的相关性。孟晚舟事件，我们是通过法律手段来捍卫我们的权利。

Ren: Personally, I don't see any connection between those cases and the case of Meng. In Meng's case, I believe we just need to leave the outcome to the proper legal proceedings. As far as the relationship between me and Meng as father and daughter, I would say, it's a close relationship in some aspects and not so close in others.

对于我们父女之间的关系，既亲密也不亲密。说不亲密的原因，是在女儿很小的时候我就当兵去了，每年有11个月不和孩子在一起，剩下探亲的1个月，我在家的时候他们去上学，放学吃了饭他们要做作业，所以在他们的孩童时代、青年时代，我们的连接不够亲密。第二个时期就是创业时代，为了生存而奋斗。我基本每天16个小时在办公室，无法顾及这个家，所以我的三个儿女和我都不亲。从父亲这个角度来说，我觉得是亏欠他们的。我曾经和他们谈过话，我问“是爸爸小时候天天和你们在一起玩捉猫猫好，还是像今天创造一个平台给你们提供机会好？”他们说“还是创造平台好”，所以他们就谅解了小时候我没有抽时间陪他们捉猫猫。

Why do I say it's not so close? Throughout her childhood, I was in the military, which means that each year I was away for 11 months, spending one month with my family. Meng had to go to school, and after school, she had to do her homework. Therefore, our connection during her childhood and adolescence was not that strong. In addition, when I started Huawei, I had to fight for the survival of this company, spending 16 hours a day in the office. I have one son and two daughters, and I do not think my relationship with them was very close. As a father, I feel indebted to them. I once talked to all of them, asking if they would prefer we spent more time together as a family. The alternative I gave them was that I would build a platform upon which they could grow. Their response was, alright, we would choose a platform for our professional development. 

在工作上，我们是一个流程化的公司，更谈不上家庭关系。而且我也不直接管辖孟晚舟的工作，所以我们的交流也不多。将来我退休以后，尽可能去弥补关系。

Within Huawei, Huawei's management system is one based on processes. Processes are cold things, and I do not directly supervise Ms. Meng's responsibilities, so we don't have a strong connection in the workplace, either. Of course, maybe after my retirement in the future, I will try my best to compensate for these things.

16. 《彭博社》高原：接着刚才问，您现在有退休的打算么？另外两个关于美国方面的问题，您之前说没有很好的管道跟美国政府沟通，那现在这么多外媒坐在这里，您如果想有一些给美国政府说的话，您最想传达的信息是什么？另外，之前特朗普发了Twitter说，如果干预孟晚舟的事情对中美的贸易战谈判有利，他会去做这件事情，您怎么看待特朗普这个人？

Q: Do you have any plan right now to retire? And the two other questions are related to the United States. You mentioned earlier that you do not have access or channels to talk to the US government. Right now we have so many foreign media outlets and journalists here. What is the message that you want to communicate through us to the US government? Trump also mentioned or tweeted that he could intervene in Meng's case if that would serve the trade negotiations with China. What would you say about that? And how do you feel about Donald Trump as a person?

任正非：第一个问题，我的退休就看谷歌什么时候发明出新药使人长生不老，我在等这个药呢。

Ren: To your first question, the timing of my retirement will depend on when Google can invent a new medicine that will allow people to live forever. I'm waiting for that medicine.

第二个问题，如果问我想通过媒体对美国说一句话，那就是“合作共赢”。因为越来越高科技的世界，越来越不可能由一个国家、一个公司完整地完成一件事情。在工业时代，一个国家可以独立做一台完整的纺织机、一辆完整的火车、一艘完整的轮船。而信息社会相互的依存非常高，才能推动人类社会更快的进步。人类信息社会未来的膨胀是无限巨大的，所以任何一个市场机会都不可能由一家公司独立完成，需要有千万个公司共同承担。

To your second question, the message to the US that I want to communicate is collaboration and shared success. In our hi-tech world, it is increasingly impossible for any single company or even any single country to do the whole thing. 

In the industrialisation era, maybe one nation alone would have all the capabilities needed to produce a complete textile machine, a complete train, or a complete ship. We are in a world of information. In an information society, interdependence between one another is very significant. And it is these inter-dependencies that drive human society to progress even faster. The information society we are going to see will be massive. And for any single market opportunity, it cannot be sustained or supported by any single company. Instead, it calls for the concerted efforts of thousands or even tens of thousands of companies working together. 

第三个问题，对于特朗普总统说“要把孟晚舟的事件管起来”，那我只能等等看，我现在不能作出判断。对特朗普总统的个人看法，我还是认为他是一个伟大的总统，敢于把税收大幅度降下来，这是有利于美国产业发展的。随着人工智能大规模在工业和管理中的使用，过去工会问题、福利问题、罢工问题……都会随之而解。减税是有利于投资，相当于挖了一片洼地，有利于水流进去。但是只有善待所有国家，善待所有公司，大家才会积极投资，投资产生效益，才能弥补税收的减少。如果动不动就吓唬一些国家，吓唬一些公司，动不动就抓人，谁敢到美国去投资，税收创造的优越环境就不能发挥出作用。

As for your third question, for President Trump's comment that he might intervene in the case of Meng Wanzhou, we need to wait and see whether he acts upon this. Right now I can't make a judgment about that. And then for President Trump as a person, I still believe he is a great president, in the sense that he was bold to slash taxes. I think that is conducive to the development of industries in the US 

With the increasing adoption of AI in industry and also in the management of companies, traditional challenges like trade unions, social welfare issues, and possible strikes might be mitigated. Reducing taxes is conducive to encouraging investment. It is like digging a trench in the ground, which makes it easy for water to flow into that trench. However, it's also important to treat all countries and all companies – which are potential investors – nicely, so that they will proactively invest. Benefits from increased investment can offset loss of revenue from tax cuts for the government. If countries or companies are frightened, let's say, by the detention of certain individuals, then those potential investors might be scared away, and the favourable environment created by tax cuts will not perform to expectations.

17. 《金融时报》Yuan Yang：很多人认为，目前美国对华为5G的怀疑不仅是因为技术性问题，还有政治性问题，华为已经成为中美冷战的代表，您怎么看待这个问题？

Q: Many people are saying that the suspicion around Huawei's 5G in Europe and the United States is not all about technology. It is about politics as well. Some people even argue that Huawei perfectly embodies the cold war going on between China and the US. What do you have to say about that?

任正非：首先，华为没有这么伟大，中美两个大板块之间的冲突，怎么会让华为这颗小芝麻夹在中间，我们能起什么作用呢？中美贸易冲突，至今对我们并没有产生多大影响，我们预计2019年还会增长，但增长幅度估计不会超过20%。

Ren: First, I would say Huawei is not that important. We are like a small sesame seed, stuck in the middle of conflict between two great powers. What role can we play? The trade conflict between China and the US has not had a major impact on our business. We are expected to continue our growth in 2019, but that growth will not be greater than 20 per cent. 

第二，现在西方有些人认为华为设备运作有阴谋，这种意识形态就像工业革命时期砸坏纺织机一样，认为先进的纺织机破坏了世界。华为卖的是一个裸设备，这个设备上没有意识形态。这个设备是由运营商来掌控的，不是华为。所以，我们不要回到工业革命砸毁纺织机的时代。

Second, some people in the West believe that Huawei's equipment is stamped with some sort of ideology. That is as silly as people smashing textile machines back during the industrial revolution, as they thought advanced textile machines would disrupt the world. We only provide equipment to telecom operators, and that equipment does not have an ideology. It is controlled by telecom operators, not by Huawei. So I definitely hope that people do not go back to the old days of the industrial revolution when textile machines were being smashed.

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