艺术家访谈 ｜ Hazló：我喜欢在像山洞一般的房间内绘画
HAZLÓ 哈兹洛
（b. 1954）
哈兹洛(Hazló)来自法国普罗旺斯戈尔德市，他以石灰岩湿壁画作为主要的创作媒介。早在70年代，他曾做过园林设计师，又于80年代担任过摇滚乐队的萨克斯风手。90年代末开始自己的艺术创作生涯。曾在法国普罗旺斯举办个展。
艺术家采访—— 哈兹洛 Artist Interview—— Hazló
Q & A
以下翻译来自万一空间，英文原版对谈请见文末
Please scroll down for the English version
W：您一直在普罗旺斯的戈尔德市生活吗？这个地方对您有什么影响？
H：每个人都有他所谓生活的中心。这里是一切最开始发生的地方，比如生命中的重大决策，悲伤或快乐的时刻，以及一个人内在觉察的生长。毫无疑问，法国普罗旺斯这片小区域就是我世界的中心，我大半辈子都生长在这片土地。我能感受到我身躯和灵魂与这片土地的联结。
人们常说普罗旺斯是产生艺术家的地方，他们还会提到梵高（Vincent Van Gogh），说他以一种美丽而痛苦的方式绘制了普罗旺斯的光景。对我而言并非如此，起码不是我表达与这个地方连结的方式。我喜欢在房间内绘画，就好像在山洞里创作一样。这里的阳光如此强烈，只要我不把自己关在旧画室里，那些看着我作画的小灵魂就会躲起来。每当这时，我就会想象外面的光、岩石或山脉的弧度，无尽的蓝天或这些带有法国南部口音的人！所有这些背景都会以一种更简单的方式在我的笔刷下流淌。
©万一空间与艺术家，摄影师Ms Doro.T Copyright© W.ONE SPACE and the Artist, credit to Ms Doro.T
W：您的创作来源一般来自哪里？您之前玩过音乐，创作音乐和绘画是两种状态？
H：我想我的主要灵感源于文字，更多是来自诗歌，还有一些不同时期的文学作品。文字在创造图像时具有巨大的力量。
作为一名音乐家，韵律对我的壁画创作的节奏和时间产生了很大帮助。当你和别人一起演奏的时候，你需要配合和融入；而当你在画一幅壁画的时候，节奏却是由材料和石膏在干燥之前所需的时间决定的。我绘画时的状态很不一样，因为工作室里只有我一个人。
W：除了文艺复兴大师的湿壁画作品，其实有很多杰出的湿壁画来自于无名艺术家。你个人有倾向的湿壁画艺术家或作品吗？为什么？
W：未来你会坚持做湿壁画，还是有计划想尝试其他创作媒介？
Ｗ：您怎么理解“虚空”？
Ｗ：我看您有件作品名叫＂The Witnesses＂，您在命名的时候是怎么想的呢？
作品“证人”细节图 Detail of the work "The Witnesses"
©万一空间 Copyright© W.ONE SPACE
Ｗ：展览空间中，您的作品“萨满”与古代作品（新石器时代的甲骨）放置在一起，并且放在天这个板块，您怎么看呢？
石灰岩湿壁画、胶画法 Fresco, Distemper
100 x 100cm；2010
©万一空间与艺术家 Copyright© W.ONE SPACE and the Artist
©万一空间 Copyright© W.ONE SPACE
"Shaman" and "A Turquoise-Studded Oracle-Bone Inscription" at HanSan
©万一空间 Copyright© W.ONE SPACE
Ｗ：请问您看完我们展览函三其他当代和古代作品有没有什么评价和想法？
Ｗ：最后一个问题即使知道湿壁画是一种历久弥坚的媒介，很多人还是会比较疑惑其储存状态，尤其是在沿海城市，你能给出一些收藏建议吗？
Q & A
HAZLÓ 哈兹洛 = H
万一空间 W.ONE SPACE = W
W: Have you always been living in Provence? Does this place have any impact on your creation?
H: Eveyone has (or should have) his own center of the world. I mean, the place where things start, like important life events, sad or happy moments. It is the place wherein the image we have of ourselves takes place. And without any doubt, to me, this small area of France called Provence is the center of my world. I feel cnnected to this land. A connection involving my whole person, body and soul since I've been spending the most of my life here.
People often say that Provence is a land for painters, and they mention Vincent Van Gogh who showed the light of Provence in such a beautiful although tortured way.
To me the links to Provence are not that kind. I like to paint inside as if I was in a cave. The light of the sun here is so intense that the little spirits who watch over the painting moments would stay hidden to me as long as I wouldn't withdraw myself in the shelter of my old studio. But then I would be able to imagine the outside light, the rocks or the lines of the hills, the endless blue sky, or the particular southern french accent people have here! And all this background would flow out in an easier way through my brushes!
W: Where do you generally get your inspiration? We’ve seen that you played music before, are you in distinct states while creating music and painting?
H: I think my main inspiration comes first from the words. And moreover from poetry. Ancient or modern literature as well. Words have a tremendous power as soon as it's about creating images.
As a musician I learned rhythm and this helps me a lot with fresco painting which is mostly a matter of rhythm and time. When playing with other people one needs to fade into the common rhythm and when painting "a fresco" the tempo is given by the materials and by the time the plaster needs before getting dry. The state I am in when painting is obviously different since I'm completely alone in my studio.
W: What are the differences between traditional and contemporary fresco techniques? Why choose this specific medium instead of others? What kind of state are you in when creating?
H: A very focused state! As I said before, painting "a fresco" means fading into the rhythm imposed by the medium. After it starts you cannot stop until the "fresco" time is over. However you should never feel in a hurry, but very calm. Just acting! And to achieve this goal you cannot let your mental thoughts and projections come in front. I could say it's an active meditative state. And when your thoughts stay in the back, enough room is left for things to happen.
You also asked what was the difference between traditional and contemporary fresco painting? To me there is none! As long as the painter plays the game and practices with the traditional mediums which are lime putty with sand or marble powder, pigments, water etc.
But what stays always the same is the particular emotion brought to the viewer by the mineral texture of the fresco. It's a stone actually! A recreated limestone! I often pick up little stones on my way when walking outside and every time, it brings to me a funny sensation when thinking that it has been existing long before human beings came on earth (maybe also long after).
A painting which is also a stone can have this kind of power sometimes to remind us how short our time is and how important it is to be fully present to what we are living.
W: Besides Fresco painting masterpieces during the Renaissance, there are actually many great Frescoes created by untitled artists? Do you have prefered artists or works? Why?
H: Giotto, Fra Angelico, those people were not only artists I guess, but also men whose only goal was to pass on the revelations they had received, as some precious gifts. I really admire this.
When talking about fresco one will think of Michelangelo of course. It looks like he has been one of the greatest virtuosos if not the greatest. No doubt at all. However sometimes virtuosity can also be seen as a very human quality, able to lift up somebody to the higher recognition but not very useful when it comes to getting in touch with other levels above or underneath the human. In this field unknown and forgotten painters can be sometimes as good as great masters, I think.
When looking at an artwork, whether modern or ancient, I'm not such interested in thinking how good the artist is, or was, but mostly in the emotion it brings to me. Art needs to be a vehicle for emotions!
W: Will you still create Fresco Paintings in the future or do you plan to try some other medium?
H: I already started to explore other mediums. But related to my fresco works. Since I work on wood panels I am not subject to the specific constraints attached to wall painting. I'm allowed then to come back to the fresco layer, after it dries, with distempers, egg tempera, ancient lacquers and varnishes. The idea behind, is not to cheat with the fresco process but rather to enhance it. To broaden the fresco language by bringing some new vocabulary.
It is very interesting to use those alternative techniques to create contrasts: based on the texture, matte or quite glossy, rough or smooth, or based on the color, given that a transparent lacquer will make the fresco colors more vivid.
I'd also like to go to bas-relief, as I started to do for instance with the fresco called "The Witnesses". The intention then is to remind the work of an archaeologist who discovers layers, under layers, under layers etc. All of that is an endless exploration!
W: How do you define or explain "The Void" in your works?
H: To me "The Void" is not an intellectual concept but rather a deep perception of the universe we are part of. "The Void" is endless and it is far beyond the reality we know, and yet it has no reality that we can name or describe. It includes all and everything. We are part of it and we are the whole of it at the same time (even if usually we don't notice it).
We usually perceive ourselves as distinct entities, distinct from each other, and distinct from what is above or around us. But The Void is not above us, it is us! It is a place which does not exist, at least in the way we mean the concept of "existing", but it is place where we are all connected. Thus I think every creation should be a kind of digging into the Void, if possible. Meaning no certainty at all to bring something back!
Certainties are necessary for taking action but they often are limitations as well. A true creation should always start with diving and digging. Diving into the Void and digging with the innocence of a child, as if it was the first time. The technical or intellectual background is obviously essential, artistic skills and experience too, but a true creator should always see himself as a beginner. Always!
Fresco painting is a very demanding technique which compels me to stay as humble as a beginner, but which offers many precious gifts, just coming right out from there, from the place without name!
W: I have seen there is an artwork called "The Witnesses". So how do you think when naming your works?
H: An artwork exits only through the eyes of the viewer, so every image or memory that arises when looking at it, is fine and justified.
It's a tricky stuff to give a name to a painting because it should not limit too much the ability of the viewer in generating his own images. I think the title of this Fresco, "The Witnesses" gives an idea of what I personally feel about it, but then, anyone is free to see what he feels like seeing.
Children are the best with that game! When I'm present at my exhibitions I like to ask chidren what they see. And I learn a lot out of their feedbacks!
W: In our exhibition place, your work "Shaman" is placed with a turquoise-studded oracle-bone inscription (an ancient sacrifice artefact) in the section Tian "Heaven". How do you think of it?
H: There could not be a better association! "Shaman", in the way I see this Fresco, is quite specific. When I painted it I could feel a very strong presence all around. I don't know at all what this presence was but I could really feel it.
So I think it could also be seen as a window. A connection path or an object to meditate with. In the ancient times initiated persons could predict the future with the help of artefacts just like the turquoise-studded oracle bone. And those people were often called "Shaman". So how could we imagine a better combination!
I'm pretty sure the Fresco and the Oracle bone don't only discuss the weather together and I would really like to hear what they say!
W: Do you have any thoughts about other artworks or artefacts of Han San?
H: We have been talking about the Fresco "Shaman" just before and I said I saw it as a window. Now when I look at the hole "Han San" exhibition I can notice that many other artworks or artefacts could be seen that way.
The black holes of Renato Nicolodi bring us to the fundamental question: "What is on the other side?" And what should we say about Chen's "Cloud Gate"?
Artefacts for divination, such as the oracle bone, artworks reminding windows, doors or passages, all of that make up a very inspired exhibition and I'm sure guests can feel that.
An artefact I really loved is the small neolithic pottery with a face engraved on it. I also see it as a connecting object. Something that brings us in contact with other human beings who lived thousand yesrs before us!
W: The last question, although knowing fresco painting is a long-lasting medium, many people are still concerned about its preservation state, especially in coastal cities, can you give us some suggestions?
H: There are no worries about that. The Frescoes one can see in the W.Onespace Gallery lay on wood panels and should be considered like other kind of paintings.
Preservation issues occur sometimes with frescoes painted directly on walls, in case of excessive dampness. This is what happens in Venice where the hole city is build on the water! So the moisture is absorbed by the walls just like ink in a blotting paper and comes out through the skin of the walls which often happens to be a fresco, actually! Some specific mushrooms may take hold then and be harmful for the frescoes. It's a pitty! But now curators start to find ways to repare or at least to prevent those kind of damages.But again this kind of issue does not affect Frescoes on panels. Hopefully!
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