CGTN对话思想者 | “美国隐士”比尔·波特的“月亮哲学”

中秋将至，正是吟诗赏月好时节，不过你听过诵唱古诗么？在接受刘欣专访时，美国作家比尔·波特带来一曲苏轼的《中秋月》。比尔·波特爱月，但爱的不是满月，“否极泰来，盛极必衰，《道德经》教导我们成为月亮没有光亮的暗面，在简单、弱势和阴柔中自我修行，”比尔如是说道。遥祝大家中秋快乐，不论阴晴圆缺，都喜人间好时节！

Mid-Autumn Festival greetings! Hope you can celebrate the day with loved ones. Here's an ancient Chinese poem about the moon brought by Bill Porter, an American writer & translator. He told Liu Xin he loves Chinese poetry because you can say so much with so little.

Liu Xin: For instance, what would you say you learned from Lao Tzu or from Confucius that you can think of at this moment? 

刘欣：从老子或孔子那里，你学到了什么？

Bill Porter: When you study Confucius or Lao Tzu, there are many, many books about it, but when all I wanted to do was just read the text, I didn't want to read books about Confucius. I want to read what the Lun Yu said or the Dao De Jing.

比尔·波特：我们能找到很多研究孔子或老子的书籍，但我只想读原文。我对别人对孔子的解读不感兴趣。我想看的是《论语》和《道德经》的原文。

It was in the course of reading the Dao De Jing, I discovered that the Dao De Jing was about the moon. It was not just the moon that we think of. It was about the dark moon. Dao De Jing was about being the dark side of the moon, not the bright side of the moon. I later sort of realized that the Yi Jing is about being the full moon, being successful. 

在研读《道德经》的过程中，我发现《道德经》探索的是关于月亮的哲学，但道家谈的不是我们眼睛看到的那个月亮的亮面，而是月亮没有光亮的暗面。《道德经》教导我们如何成为月亮的暗面，而非亮面。我后来想《易经》似乎讲的是如何成为满月、如何成功。

Liu Xin: The Book of Change.

刘欣：《易经》讲的是变化。

Bill Porter: Yes, not just change. Things change, of course. But then you read the Yi Jing, it's all about using change to be successful. Lao Tzu's Dao De Jing is about being a failure, how to fail, how to be the dark side of the moon, how to be the weak rather than the strong. Because if you're the dark of the moon, then you're going to become bright. If you're the bright moon, then you're going to fade. 

比尔·波特：是的，但《易经》不止于变化，毕竟事物总在变化之中。《易经》全篇围绕着如何利用变化来获得成功，但老子的《道德经》关注的则是失败，如何通过失败（修行）、如何通过阴暗（修行）、如何通过软弱而非强硬（修行）。因为否极泰来，盛极必衰。

And so, this is the great lesson I've learned from Lao Tzu's Dao De Jing. It's the cultivation of being simple and weak and the feminine, being on the dark side and also not knowing so much because we discover that our knowledge is not really knowledge after all. It's just delusion posing as the truth. I got that from the Buddha, that what we think of that we know is just what everybody says something is so. 

这就是我从老子的《道德经》中学到的重要一课，即如何在简单、弱势、阴柔中自我修行，不惧未知，不求无所不知。我们发现，有时候知识并非真知，知识常常是伪装成真理的错觉。

我是从佛祖那里学到这点，我们以为自己知道某件事情，但其实那只不过是人云亦云。

So, I discover all of these. It's sort of like these are all doors, the Buddha door, they're all about harmony, whether it's the harmony of the mind is Buddhism, a harmony of the body is Taoism. The harmony of society is Confucianism. 

所以，我发现（儒家 道家 佛家）这些思想有点像一扇扇门。它们都在追求着和谐——佛家追求心灵和谐，道家追求身体和谐，而儒家追求社会和谐。

And if we're all searching for something, we find ourselves in like a burning house, in a world gone crazy and we want to go through one of these doors. We have to choose which door. We all have different personalities and inclinations, so we're going to choose a different door, but we have to go through one door. We can't go through three doors, but once we go through that door, we're outside. There are no doors. There is no Lao Tzu. There's no Taoism and Buddhism and Confucianism. It's no more divisions about what's real.

如果我们想寻找（人生的答案），就如置身在着了火的房子或在一个疯狂的世界里，我们想破门而出，就必须要选一扇门。

由于不同的个性和偏好，我们会选择不同的门。我们无法同时穿过三扇门，必须做出选择。

一旦我们穿过那扇门，我们就到了外面的世界（顿悟了）。门消失不见了，道教、佛教和儒家不再存在，而是彼此含融、殊途同归。

Liu Xin: Finally, we are approaching the mid-autumn festival where people eat mooncakes. And this is often the time when people would write poems or recite poems. And I know that you have a particular penchant for singing or chanting poems. 

刘欣：最后，中秋佳节临近，人们不仅会吃月饼，也会吟诗作赋来度过佳节 ，我知道你有个特别的爱好，那就是吟诗。

Actually, according to some people, that's basically the way how ancient poems were supposed to be recited, right? Not really as we're doing, but a in a musical way.

其实根据一些人的说法，古诗本来就该诵唱出来，而不是像我们现在这样读出来，对吗？

Bill Porter: When I was first in Taiwan, I studied calligraphy, Shufa. I could've studied calligraphy with a most famous calligrapher in Taiwan, his name was Zhuang Yan.

比尔·波特：刚到台湾时，我学了书法。我当时师从台湾著名书法家庄严先生。

One of the most famous poems I remember from studying with him and writing it out with my calligraphy brush was the poem Zhongqiu Yue by Su Shi, where he goes: As evening clouds withdraw a clear cool air floods in, the jade wheel passes silently across the Silver River. This life this night has rarely been kind, where will we see this moon next year?

我印象里跟他学习用毛笔写出的最有名的一首诗是苏轼的《中秋月》：暮云收尽溢清寒，银汉无声转玉盘。此生此夜不长好，明月明年何处看。

This is a poem he wrote to his brother Su Zhe, Su Ziyou. Because they only met maybe every 4 or 5 years, they would have a chance to get together. So, I always just love this simple little poem he wrote about just watching the moon and wondering, will we see this again? Will we see this again together? (Liu Xin: They were very close.) Very touching poem. So that's what I love about Chinese poetry, you can say so much with so little.  

这首诗是苏轼写给弟弟苏辙，苏子由的，因为他们可能每四、五年才能有机会团聚一次。我一直喜欢这首简单的小诗，苏轼说他看着月亮，心里想的是兄弟们能否再一同赏月？那时又将是何时？非常感人的诗句。这就是我喜欢中国诗歌的原因，寥寥数语却能传情达意。

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