Artist Interview｜Barbara Edelstein:Dance of The Body with Nature
艺术家专访 Artist Interview
梦与叶 —— 张健君&芭芭拉·爱德斯坦
Leaves of Dreams
Zhang Jian-Jun & Barbara Edelstein
上海狮語画廊 Leo Gallery Shanghai
艺术家｜Artists
张健君 Zhang Jian-Jun
芭芭拉·爱德斯坦 Barbara Edelstein
策展人｜Curator
沈奇岚博士 Dr. Shen Qilan
展期｜Duration
2023.11.04-2024.1.07
地点｜Venue
武康庭｜上海徐汇区武康路376号，狮語画廊
Ferguson Lane｜Leo Gallery, 376 Wu Kang Road, Xuhui District, ShanghaiXuhui District, Shanghai
Artist Interview｜Barbara Edelstein
Dr. Shen QiLan: Could you introduce yourself to our audience? Because I only know you come from California.
Barbara Edelstein: I'm originally from California, from Los Angeles. And then moved to New York for a studio program at P.S.1, which is part of MoMA. I grew up in an art family, but I studied Art, Biology, and Dance. I've done art all my life. It's something that I think is part of my being.
Installation view
Dr. Shen QiLan: And as far as I know, that you are especially fond of nature. How did you begin your obsession with nature？
Barbara Edelstein: My obsession? I think growing up in California, in the hills of Hollywood, being surrounded by it, and it's just a part of me that I need very much. And I also find that nature is the world. We are nature, so to distance ourselves from nature doesn't work. So, for me, it's this connection to the world. When I look at nature, when I look at trees, leaves, and rocks, it's a forest. The forest is the world, taking a microcosm, and it's part of the macrocosm of the universe. It's my connection to our living planet, our living universe, and the energy.
Installation view
Dr. Shen QiLan: And in this exhibition, you are presenting two beautiful series, could you tell us more about that? The Wonder Garden and also Leaf in the Air?
Barbara Edelstein: For the sculpture, I've done sculpture all the time in my life. At this point, because I've looked at leaves and trees for so long and have been encompassing them, but they're also encompassing me. It's become a unity. There's no division. It's a connection that's not divisible. When I do the sculptures or when I do the paintings, it's my being and my consciousness that's now coming out that's being expressed. And I'm creating new leaves. I'm creating trees. I'm creating these forms that are as much nature as the ones we find in the world.
Dr. Shen QiLan: So, what's the difference between your leaves and leaves in nature?
Barbara Edelstein: It's the one that's come within me and the expression for myself of how I see the world. It's my artist eye. It's how I see the world and how I connect to the world.
Leaf in the Air (series), 2022
Ink on Rice Paper
50 x 69.5cm
Dr. Shen QiLan: Look at the leaf behind you. I think in the natural world, there is no leaf like that. So you don't represent.
Barbara Edelstein: No. It's not a representation. As I said, it's so connected that I am creating the leaf, I am creating this form that grows, that blossoms, that is the tree, this sculpture, these shapes, these things. It's my vision, and it's my way of seeing the world. It's a process, such as when I travel, I look at things, I see different things, I take in wherever I am, and it comes within me, and then it gets processed, and becomes part of my consciousness. And then certain things stay and evolve. And then it's my way of expression. At this point, it's my expression of what is in the world.
Leaf in the Air (series), Detail
Dr. Shen QiLan: So, in your expression, how do you develop the strength, the lines, and also the format, the form of the leaves? You say there is something with the body, the dancers, and also the movement.
Barbara Edelstein: So it's very much about movement. I grew up also dancing. I was a dancer, and that informs how I move in the world and how I see the world. The energy in the world is very much this physical being, and our physical being with our sense of sight, but it's also movement and sound. All of our senses are included in how I interact with the world.
And so when I'm doing sculpture, when I look at a tree, when I'm doing painting, it's encompassing that dance of the energy of the world, the dance of our physical being. That's so important. We are physical beings, and we are creatures. So that movement, this sweep, is a way a dancer might move. Bodies move, leaves move in the wind. The wind is energy from the world. When the leaves move, it's a manifestation of that energy.
Installation view
Dr. Shen QiLan: So back to your own story, since when you are so into the Chinese culture and become so influenced by the Eastern philosophy and culture.
Barbara Edelstein: Before I was around, in California there was the Beat generation & poets, who were very much into Zen. So Zen Buddhism and Daoist thought were a potent influence in California. And it's the Pacific Rim, so there's very much an Asian culture in California, so that was what I was exposed to growing up.
I looked at Chinese paintings. I looked at Japanese gardens. Then, when I was 13 years old, I read the book Zen in the Art of Archery, and it talked about how to study something for a few years, until it becomes a part of you and there is no separation. The action becomes part of your unconscious being. The book was about studying archery, but it could be any study, and this concept was very much an influence. Then, in high school, I studied Zen, I had cousins who were in Zen, monks and a Roshi, so it was all part of this California culture. And finally, I met Jian-Jun, and he brought me to China and I explored more.
As an artist, I have always used ink. But when I came to China, it was much more an exploration. I learned about Ba Da Shan Ren (Zhu Da), who I think is fantastic, his way of composition, his way of using space. Empty space is not empty. It's white space, which is a different way of looking at it from a western viewpoint, where it is referred to as “negative” space.
Installation view
Dr. Shen QiLan: Besides Ba Da Shan Ren, is there any other very interesting artist？
Barbara Edelstein: The calligraphy, the running script of Huai Su and Zhang Xu. The idea, which to me is a dance, It's very much why I would love to be able to do that. I've tried to learn some calligraphy as the movement of that calligraphy is amazing, and how the energy comes through your brush. It's this whole-body energy that then is expressed with the tip of the brush and the ink. And the ink is also water. Water has been very important to my work, which is also the energy of the world. It's life for us.
The other part in discovering Asian culture, Chinese culture and philosophy, is this idea of energy. When you see the movement of the leaves and the wind, the wind is energy, the leaves move in the wind, so this is a manifestation of this invisible force. You're seeing this energy, and the energy of this 'Qi' (气), the 'Qi' of the world is there. And that's what I also hope to express in the paintings, and the sculpture, and the video, and all of the work I do, is this energy in the world. It's so important. It's always prevalent around us, but we don't think about it, and I want to bring this awareness to people.
Barbara Edelstein in her Studio
Dr. Shen QiLan: Are there any other artists who influence your practice?
Barbara Edelstein: Being a woman, sculptors and sculpture has been traditionally been very male-oriented. But there was Louise Nevelson, Louise Bourgeois, and Claire Falkenstein, who were not mentors, but they were icons. They were before me, and they had to work even harder as a woman sculptor. But I've learned so much that, with sculpture, it can be very delicate and very strong.
So much of thinking of women's artwork is how it's delicate, implying weak. But women's work isn’t this. Women are very strong. Women can be delicate and strong at the same time, they’re not mutually exclusive. I’ve done many installations, once I had created a landscape with old steel that had been bent and rusted, with lava stone and flowing water. And a male gallery dealer looked at this installation, didn't know I had done it, and felt a macho man had to have made this because it was powerful. And then he learned it was me, and I definitely wasn’t a macho man. So there is this societal vision of what women can do, which is changing, but it's not changed.
Barbara Edelstein on the exhibition site
Dr. Shen QiLan: Back to our exhibition. What's the expectation of this exhibition? What do you think of the Leaves of Dreams?
Barbara Edelstein: Amazing. I mean that it's this mirage, this dream, what we can think of, what we can dream, what our minds can do with taking in all the information and then exploring and creating. And that's what the title really captures.
Installation view
Dr. Shen QiLan: How do you feel about the dialogue with Jian-Jun in this exhibition?
Barbara Edelstein: I think we are both very cosmic, and it’s again, the microcosm and the macrocosm. It's both concerned with energy, the universality, the feeling. I think it's the energy of the world, I think it's very much the dialogue, movement is there, nature is there. It is a different way of seeing nature, they’re both abstract in a way, some more abstract, some less. But I think there's the connection of always being aware of the cosmic and physical world and the metaphysical.
Installation view
Dr. Shen QiLan: Do you also inspire each other very much?
Barbara Edelstein: Yes, very much. And there's always a dialogue going on between us doing the work. We do our work separately but we have collaborated, however, we are always talking about the work. We have a similar aesthetic. So that works very well. We trust each other on critiques for looking. We may disagree, but we trust each other.
A way of judging artwork, I think, a way of looking at art and what works. If there is depth to it, if there is that soul in it, and some aesthetic sense of where artwork should come from. Where artwork comes from, I think it comes from each of us, our consciousness, our soul, our intense interest, such as Jian-Jun, looking at the universe, looking at the sky, looking at planets, looking at the cosmos, and myself, looking at earth, and the growing things, and less about the commercial world.
Installation view
Dr. Shen QiLan: What is your vision for the future, the world? Because you two both care about the future of the world.
Barbara Edelstein: Hopefully, there will be peace because we're not doing a very good job of it right now. Hopefully, my work can bring some peace to the world, some acknowledgment that we shouldn't be destroying it. We shouldn't be destroying each other. I mean, the world right now is... humans are making the world not a very good place, a difficult place. And yet there's such joy in the world, and there's such tragedy in the world. Hopefully we can become conscious enough to reduce the tragedy.
Installation view
Dr. Shen QiLan: That is why we contribute to this exhibition to the world. That is the Leaves of Dreams. Maybe one day, it will come true.
Barbara Edelstein: Maybe. And hopefully, there are probably in a lot of philosophies, but I know in Judaism, that you're placed in this world to make the world better than when you arrived. And that's always been a very important thought that, hopefully, I can make the world a better place by adding beauty to it. That's my way as an artist. Other people have other ways, but that's my way as an artist to make the world more beautiful to create this and the consciousness of it.
关于艺术家 ｜ About the Artist
芭芭拉·爱德斯坦 Barbara Edelstein
芭芭拉·爱德斯坦，出生于美国洛杉矶，在加州大学圣克鲁兹分校获艺术与生物学士学位，并于克莱蒙特大学获得艺术硕士学位。她曾任上海纽约大学艺术学副教授，现为一名雕塑家和多媒体艺术家于纽约和上海两地生活工作。
芭芭拉·爱德斯坦的作品将水墨、自然与当代人文要素相融合，创造了独具特色的艺术意蕴和视觉形式。她具有西方艺术视野，同时在受东方文化熏陶的环太平洋地区生活，之后又在中国工作多年。这些经历使她能够自如地将东西文化融入她的艺术创作中，呈现出独特的跨媒介艺术风格。她的作品旨在表现人与自然之间的深度共鸣，以诗意的方式呈现自然流变之本质。
芭芭拉·爱德斯坦的作品广泛的在世界多地的美术馆，艺术中心以及画廊展出，包括纽约P.S.1当代艺术中心，德国波恩女性艺术家美术馆，意大利威尼斯双年展，韩国光州双年展，波兰艺术家美术馆双年展，以及在上海美术馆，广东美术馆展出。芭芭拉·爱德斯坦创作的多件大型公共雕塑被长期或永久性地展示在美国及中国，包括美国裘拉斯现代雕塑公园、上海静安国际雕塑公园、广东美术馆以及杭州西湖环境雕塑项目。其作品也被 美国Ahmanson 当代艺术中心、美国华盛顿国立女艺术家美术馆、上海美术馆和深圳画院美术馆、美国道·琼斯总部艺术中心等多国公共及私人艺术机构收藏。
Barbara Edelstein, born in Los Angeles, California, is a sculptor and multi-media artist that has lived and worked in both New York and Shanghai since 2000. She received her BA from the University of California, Santa Cruz in Art and Biology, and her MFA in Art from Claremont Graduate University, and had been an Associate Professor of Art at New York University in Shanghai.
Barbara Edelstein's work blends ink, nature, and contemporary cultural elements to create unique artistic meanings and visual forms. Having a western perspective on art, growing up on the Pacific Rim with its Eastern influences, and having worked in China for many years, has given her a unique viewpoint to combine both the cultures of the East and West into her art, and develop her multi-media artworks. Her art strives to render the poetic manifestation of the artist’s deep communion with the forms and spaces of nature, to create a denotation of its very essence, wherein all of nature is in movement, evolution, and transformation.
Barbara Edelstein's artworks have been widely exhibited in art museums, art centers, and galleries around the world, including P.S.1 Contemporary Art Center in New York, the Frauen Museum in Bonn, Germany, the Venice Biennale in Italy, Gwangju Biennale in Korea, the Artists Museum Biennale in Poland, Shanghai Art Museum, and the Guangdong Museum of Contemporary Art. She has had large-scale public sculptures on permanent and long-term display in China, United States, and Europe, including the Djerassi Sculpture Park in California, the Shanghai JingAn International Sculpture Park, the Guangdong Museum of Art, the Hangzhou Municipal Government, and the Muzeum Kolei Waskotorowej in Poland. Her works are in the collections of several public and private institutions in many countries, including the Ahmanson Center for Contemporary Art, the National Museum of Women in the Arts, the Shanghai Art Museum, the Shenzhen Gallery and Museum, and the Dow Jones Company.
关于策展人 ｜ About the Curator
沈奇岚博士 Dr. Shen Qilan
艺术评论家，策展人，文化学者，作家。于德国明斯特大学获得哲学博士学位。沈奇岚关注艺术和哲学的对话，与国内外艺术机构策划有多个富有国际影响力的展览和论坛项目。曾任《艺术世界》杂志社编辑部主任，出版社艺术主编。现任《书城》杂志编委。华东师范大学设计学院客座教授。
近年来策划的展览包括《时间的裂缝》《A.R.Penck: 暗喻会否成真？》《包豪斯课堂》《暗蚀》《重整|德国艺术立场》《中国骄傲——把当代作为方法》、《万物有灵且美》、《贾蔼力：莽原》、《感性对话》、《再生》、《意志与表象的世界》、《世迹》，《万物皆相见》，《知觉的森林》，上海双年展国际论坛“回环”系列，“我们的未来The Futures”系列国际论坛等。她也担任了《蓬皮杜现代艺术大师展》、《艺术家此在》等国际展览的顾问。
2022年，她担任了保时捷中国青年艺术家双年评选的艺术顾问及策展人。青年艺术100展览主理人计划2022年度策展导师。2020年，她担任了集美·阿尔勒国际摄影季发现奖提名人与策展人。2023年她策展了北京国际电影节·大师影像展《幻想的诗学》。
沈奇岚为多家国际艺术媒体和艺术机构撰写专栏和画册文章，包括上海博物馆、上海龙美术馆，意大利乌菲齐美术馆、澳大利亚当代艺术馆、意大利Skira出版社，Financial Times中文网、《信睿周报》、《生活》月刊、Noblesse、artnet等。2021年沈奇岚与ELLE合作了富有影响力的艺术音频节目《艺术治愈生活》。2022年，她与碧云美术馆合作了《Write it！写下来》文学播客。2023年起，她担任国际艺术杂志《art now》客座主编。沈奇岚是中国新一代文化学者和策展人的代表人物之一。
Shen Qilan is an art critic, curator, cultural scholar and writer. She received her Ph.D. in philosophy from the University of Münster, Germany. She was the editorial director of Art World magazine and editor-in-chief of the art department at Insight Media publishing house. She is also an editorial board member of Book Town magazine. She is a guest professor of East China Normal University.
Shen Qilan focuses on the ongoing dialogue between art and philosophy，she curated a number of internationally influential exhibitions and forums with domestic and international art institutions. Recent exhibitions: "Aura of Poetry" “A. R. Penck: Will Sign Become Reality?” "Bauhaus Class", " Eingedunkelt", "China Pride - Contemporary as a Method", “Bright and Beautiful”, “Jia Aili: Harsh”, “Un Dialogue avec la Sensibilité”，“Regenerate”,“Die Welt der Wille und Vorstellung”，“Paths”，”Nothing is wasted in Nature or in Love”，“The Forest of Senses”. Shen Qilan planned and presided over the international forum “Detour: A Dialogue between Art and Philosophy" for Shanghai Biennale 2018. In the same year, she also curated and presided over the international cultural dialogue series “The Futures”.
Shen Qilan worked as consultant to "Masterpieces from the Centre Pompidou 1906 - 1977" exhibition, 2016. She is academic consultant for the exhibition "Sightings| Positions of Art from Germany" 2019. In 2020, she is the nominator and curator of the Discovery Award for the Jimei-Arles International Photography Festival.
In 2022, she is artistic advisor and curator for the Porsche “Young Chinese Artist of the Year” Award. She’s curatorial Mentor for the Young Art 100 Exhibition Masterplan 2022. In 2023 she curated “The Poesie of illusions”, a phenomenal exhibition of video art masterpieces for the Beijing International Film Festival.
Shen Qilan has contributed to columns on many international art media and catalogs for international art institutions, including Financial Times, Artnet, The Thinker Weekly, Life, Noblesse, T magazine, Uffizi Museum, Shanghai Museum, Museum of Contemporary Art Australia, Skira Press in Italy, among other important media and institutions. 2021, Shen Qilan has collaborated with ELLE and produced an influential art audio program "Art Heals Life". 2022, She collaborated with Being Museum and makes an audio program “Write it!”. Since 2023, she has been guest editor-in-chief of the international art magazine art now.
Shen Qilan is one of the representative figures of the new generation of Chinese cultural scholars and curators.
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