双语悦读 | 离开与抵达：古尔纳谈写作、归属与难民问题
离开与抵达：古尔纳谈写作、归属与难民问题
陈龙译
Reflecting on the effect of having won the Nobel Prize in Literature, Abdulrazak Gurnah said the award had made him “think more kindly” about his body of work. “Maybe it wasn’t too bad after all. You do tend to be quite critical about what you do.”
古尔纳在思考荣获诺贝尔文学奖的影响时，表示这个奖项使他“善待”自己的作品：“或许这些作品终究不是太糟。我们确实喜欢挑剔自己所做的事情。”
Gurnah, professor emeritus of English and postcolonial literatures at the University of Kent, was speaking in conversation with colleagues Bashir Abu-Manneh and Amy Sackville at an event last week at the university’s Gulbenkian Arts Centre to “celebrate and honour his tremendous achievement on campus and in person”.
古尔纳是肯特大学英语和后殖民文学的荣誉退休教授，上周在该校古尔本吉亚艺术中心举行的活动中，与同事巴希尔·阿布-曼勒和艾米·萨克维尔对谈，以此“庆祝和表彰他为学校和个人所取得的卓越成就”。
Gurnah spoke of his pleasure at the reissuing of his early work since his award. “All these books have been reissued which is absolutely wonderful. The first three or four books have been out of print for generations and then they bring them out and you think ‘that’s the Nobel, these are good books’.”
获奖后，古尔纳的早期作品得以再版，他谈及了自己的喜悦之情：“所有这些书都重版了，这太好了。我最初的三四本书已经绝版多年了，现在得以再版，而人们会觉得‘这就是诺贝尔奖（得主的作品），这些都是好书’。”
The Nobel laureate spoke of the theme of departure and displacement in his work and what it meant for him. “Arrival is the end of a process. During the process, particularly when you’re young, you don’t think about what you’re leaving. You think about arrival, about destination. Even if the destination is a matter of chance, when you’re out… I’m quite sure what you’re leaving behind becomes clearer.
这位诺贝尔奖得主谈到了其作品中背井离乡和流离失所的主题，说出了它们对自己的意义：“抵达是一个过程的终结。在此过程中，尤其当你年轻时，你不会思考你在离开什么。你念兹在兹的是抵达，是目的地。即便目的地在哪里，纯属偶然，但你一旦出发……我很肯定你正抛诸身后的东西会变得愈发清晰。
“I think arrival was also a recognition of what has been lost. Departure is not something you think about, especially when you’re young. I’m quite sure that for a lot of people who end up displaced, displaced in the sense of being forced [away] by circumstances, by violence or by war or by economic need, rather than choice, because of the pressure to leave, you don’t think about what you’re leaving until it’s too late.
“我认为抵达也意味着辨识出已然失去之物。背井离乡并非萦绕你心头的事情，在你年轻的时候，更是如此。许多人并非主动选择离开，而是因环境、暴力、战争或经济需要而被迫离开，他们最终流离失所，由于面临离开的压力，他们不会考虑自己正离弃什么，直至一切无可挽回。
“Well, it takes a long time before you can get to a point where you talk about it or invoke it with a sense of restitution as opposed to just that sense of loss. I don’t suppose it ever quite stops being some kind of hard lump that can’t be quite digested.
“呃，你需要经历漫长的时间，才能以一种恢复正常而非怅然若失的口吻来谈论它。我想它不会一直静止不动，成为某种不能完全消化的硬块。
“I’m thinking of so many young people. I came here when I was 18 years old without a very clear idea of what this place was like or without much money or skills,” he said. “It takes a long time before you can have time to reflect because so much of the time you’re just coping and getting on with things if you’re lucky. So by the time you reflect, you’ve kind of come through to the other side.”
“我想到了很多年轻人。我18岁的时候踏上这块土地，对它知之甚少，且囊中羞涩，身无长技。”他说，“你需要过了很久，才会有时间反躬自省，因为很多时候你仅仅在疲于应付情势，解决问题（运气好的时候）。所以，到你反思的时候，你已经云开见月明了。”
Asked what belonging meant to him, Gurnah said: “I’m not sure if there is a sort of benign form of belonging, even if you stay put.
被问及他对归属感的理解时，古尔纳答道：“就算你原地不动，也很难说是否存在一种良性的归属感。
“I’m not sure if you can just say: this is where I am and this is where I belong and everything is fine. I’m not really sure if that is possible for most people or at least for certain kinds of people. It might be possible for others.”
“你很难这样说：这就是我所在的地方，这就是我所属的地方，一切都很美好。对大多数人或者至少对某些类型的人来说，这是否有可能发生，真的很难说。也许对其他人来说，这是有可能发生的。
“There is something tragic about displacement but with luck you can retrieve something. And in writing this is what I’ve been wanting to say. There is a possibility of retrieving something.
“流离失所有些悲惨，但要是运气好，你可以找回一些东西。而这就是我在写作中一直想表达的内容。找回一些东西的可能性是存在的。
“Human society and human cultures are ugly monstrous things so where is it you’re going to find this place that you’re gonna say I belong here and I’m cool and I’m happy?”
“人类社会和人类文化，如此丑陋畸形之物，你能在哪里可以找到一个地方，表示自己属于这里，很酷也很快乐呢？”
Gurnah spoke about his literary criticism in the 1980s and ’90s. “It felt to me at the time that there was a way of looking at this writing and what it was addressing in a way that was incomplete… I wanted to make sure that I could contribute something. To say: ‘Look, there is another part of the world, culture and history that is not being seen’. That was the motivation to be more receptive to a less parochial way of thinking about Africa.”
古尔纳谈到了他在1980年代和1990年代的文学批评：“在我看来，当时看待这种写作及其内容的方式是片面的……我想确保自己能够有所贡献，告诉世人：‘瞧，你们没有看到世界、文化和历史的另一部分。’其中的动机是促使世人不那么狭隘地思考非洲。”
Having lectured for more than three decades at the University of Kent, Gurnah discussed whether teaching and writing were “mutually supportive activities”.
古尔纳已在肯特大学授课三十多年，他这次也讨论了教学和写作是否“相辅相成”。
“I’m sure that there were connections and overlaps and that reading and teaching informed me as a reader of my own work but the processes are completely different. Certainly the process of teaching, there’s nothing like it. You’re dealing with people in a live, dynamic situation. Even if you’re prepared, you have to deal with how it works at the moment. And writing academic papers was a completely different experience from writing fiction.
“我确信它们相互联系、重叠，阅读和教学让我成为自己作品的读者，从中受益，不过过程完全不同。当然，没有什么堪比教学的过程了。你是在动态现场与人打交道。即便你已做好准备，你也必须即兴处理好各个教学环节。撰写学术论文是与创作小说迥然不同的经历。
“But obviously reading and talking about literature would have had some influence on how I would write. Perhaps I might say ‘Gosh, that’s really good. How did he do that?’ As a way of trying to understand how that’s done is quite helpful to what I might be doing which might not be the same thing but of course if you’re a self-respecting writer you try hard to make sure it’s not the same thing or disguise it as much as you can so nobody can spot it.”
“不过，阅读和谈论文学显然会对我如何写作产生一些影响。或许我可能会说：‘天哪，这写得真棒。他是怎么做到的？’试图理解别人是如何做到的，对我手边正在做的别的事情颇有裨益。当然，如果你是一位自尊自爱的作家，你会努力确保自己不会依样画瓢，或者尽可能加以掩饰，不让人发现。”
The author gave a reading from his 2020 book Afterlives. Set during German colonial rule on the coast of what is now Tanzania, the novel was longlisted last year for the Orwell Prize of Political Fiction.
古尔纳朗读了《来世》（2020年）一书的片段。这部小说的背景被设置在德国殖民统治时期的坦桑尼亚沿海地区，去年入围了奥威尔政治小说奖。
Speaking at length about what had compelled him to write this novel, Gurnah said: “In the case of Afterlives very little is known about this period… in a popular sense. So that’s a necessity, in a sense, to say here’s something you should know about. For example, I myself didn’t know the extent of the casualties for that war.”
古尔纳谈及了创作这部小说的动因：“说到《来世》，大众对这一时期的情况知之甚少。所以，从某种意义上说，我必须把它创作出来，告诉世人应该了解的情况。举个例子，以前连我自己都不知道那场战争的伤亡程度。”
Gurnah spoke about the novel as a form of writing in which he is at home. “You have to rely on other people in playwriting and other people are not always reliable. So the one advantage of writing a novel is no one messes you around. Until the editor gets their hands on it, of course. But you can write and write what you want to say until you feel like you have done so. Because it has this canvas that’s so broad and so permissive, there’s not very much limit to what you can do in terms of reflection and exploration and writing.”
古尔纳表示小说是他感到自在的创作形式：“在戏剧创作中，你必须仰赖其他人，而这些人并不总是可靠。因此，创作小说的一个好处是在编辑插手前，没有人给你捣乱。你可以写下自己想说的种种，直到你觉得自己已完成此事。小说的空间广阔无垠，选择无限，所以在反思、探索和风格方面，你不会有太多限制。”
When asked what counsel he would give to young writers to sustain their energy and integrity, Gurnah’s advice was to simply write.
年轻作家该如何维持他们的动能和完整性？古尔纳的建议是“写下去”。
“Just write. I don’t think there is anything else you can do, just write and write and write until it just works. Or alternatively, it doesn’t. And you say, well, maybe this is not the right thing. But I don’t think there is any other advice.”
“就是写下去。我不认为你还能做点别的。你就是要写啊写，直到写得像样了。或者写得不大像样。你会说，看来这样写，不大像样。我认为没有别的好建议了。”
Asked by a member of the audience whether former colonial powers such as the UK had a “particular moral obligation” to take people in, Gurnah responded: “There’s a human obligation to take people in in need. It doesn’t matter, I don’t think, whether these are people who are a direct result of British activities. There is a moral obligation but, more than that, there is a human obligation.
一位听众问道，像英国这样的前殖民主义国家是否有“特殊的道德义务”来接纳外国人。古尔纳回应道：“人类有义务接纳需要帮助的人。我认为，这些人是否是英国人的活动的直接后果，其实并不重要。除了道德义务外，还有人道义务。
“To provide if you can a prosperous country for people who are trying to save their lives from war, from state violence, from terror. The limit you can decide depending on circumstances. You can assess what people’s needs are and provide for them. This is not to say that anybody should be allowed.
“若有可能，应当为那些试图逃离战争、国家暴力、恐怖的人们提供繁荣的生活空间。你可以根据情况来决定义务的限度。你可以评估人们的实际需求，并为他们提供相应的帮助。这并不意味着任何人都应该被放进来。
“The word refugee has come to lose its meaning. Now we use the word refugee to mean anyone who wants to come into a western European country and maybe it’s important to remember this word doesn’t.
“‘难民’一词业已失去了它的意义。如今我们用‘难民’一词来指称任何想要进入西欧国家的人，也许重要的是要记住这并非该词的含义。
“Where you draw the line is something to be addressed humanely. People aren’t saying, let’s have an open door. But let’s not create situations where people would have to risk their lives when their lives are already in danger.”
“你在哪里划线？这是需要以人道方式解决的问题。人们并非指望我们大门敞开。但我们千万不要在人们的性命已经危在旦夕的情况下，还要造就让他们冒险赌上身家性命的处境。”
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