艺术漫谈｜堡垒专访
「艺术漫谈」是SGA与艺术家们进行的一系列轻松、接地气的访谈。每期我们将专访一位艺术家，了解其创意源泉、创作时面临的障碍，或对一些生活琐事的看法等等。艺术家将以文字、图像、视频、音频等任意形式进行回复。一切答案未经任何修改——没有甜言蜜语，没有胡说八道，只有艺术家最坦诚及古灵精怪的一面。
「艺术漫谈」is a series of light-hearted, level-headed artist interviews conducted by SGA. In each session, we interview them to find out what makes them tick, the muddiness they’d faced during their creating process, the minutiae of their daily lives, as well as all sorts of other exposé.Artists are free to respond in any form – be it text, image, video, audio, and etc. All answers are kept raw (and occasionally snappy). No gloss, just a cathartic release of honesty, quirkiness and beautiful chaos (or a pinch of satire).
本期艺术家
Today's Artist(s)：
堡 垒
Ensemble
「堡垒」是由七位艺术家共同发起参与的集体项目，艺术家们以露天电影放映、剧场建造、集会、印刷工作室以及出版的方式，在一起共同工作了两个月。
参与者：
胡庆泰、陆垒、蒲英玮、仇世杰、石青、诸鸽、曾宏。
Ensemble was a collaborative project founded by seven artists who worked together for two months through the mode of open-air film screenings, amphitheatre construction, gatherings, printmaking studio, and publication.
Participating artists:
Hu Qingtai, Lu Bei, Pu Yingwei, Qiu Shijie, Shi Qing, Zhu Ge, and Zeng Hong.
「堡垒」，<靡菲斯特的舞步> 展览现场，2021
Ensemble on view at "Tangle of Revolution and Political Soul", 2021
2021年11月<靡菲斯特的舞步>所展出的是「堡垒」项目的印刷工作室部分，也是该项目自2018年完结后，唯一可以展出的视觉化样本。
In November 2021, SGA showcased Ensemble’s print studio in its group exhibition “Tangle of Revolution and Political Soul”. The exhibit is considered the only possible visual sample of the project since its conclusion in 2018.
印刷工作室一开始即是「堡垒」项目的主体部分，它的建立是为了集合整个项目各种工作之间所产生的文本和溢出。刻板和油印这样需要大量劳动参与的方式，成为人与人之间的连接，个人不得不去除多余的自我与情感，参与到集体之中去成为劳动者，集体建造和共同工作也因此才成为可能，这也是「堡垒」项目得以进行的核心概念。展出的印刷品不仅是展览在时间上的叙述，也是在观念、宣言和艺术之间进行整合的主要方式，因此最终也成为整个「堡垒」项目的容器。
Since the beginning, the print studio was launched to consolidate and integrate everything (text, images, and other outputs) that participating artists have accomplished together in the course of the project. Labour-intensive practices such as block-cutting and mimeographing demand a sense of mass participation and thus function as a thread that interconnects people. Individuals will have to dilute their excessive egos and emotions to partake in the collective as a labourer, thereby achieving collective creation and communal work- the core concepts of Ensemble. The print materials exhibited are narratives in time and the main way of encompassing the manifolds of ideas, manifestos, and art- fundamentally making it the Ensemble’s vessel.
「堡垒」，单行道画廊现场，2018
Ensemble © 2018 One Way Art
01
SGA ：
「堡垒」项目是如何成立的？是什么让你们大伙儿走到一块的？
How was Ensemble founded? What brought you guys together?
堡 垒
Ensemble ：
「堡垒」参照了一些参与式艺术的工作方式，只是对现场的定义有所不同。艺术家习惯隐秘地生产作品，然后在美术馆和画廊展出。「堡垒」也是想打破这种生产模式，以展厅里正在工作的人作为生产主体，共同创造的不仅是可以去感受的现场，更是一种生产方式，以集体协作来代替个人神话。
The project Ensemble initially draws its reference from the way participatory art works; the only difference lies in defining the term ‘in-situ’. Artists, in general, are accustomed to working in individual discretion and displaying the artwork in galleries and museums. We decide to depart from such a working method, to engage instead people involved in the exhibition’s installation process as our primary labour force to create an immersive on-site experience and a mode of production that attends to collective efforts rather than an individual facade.
左起：诸鸽，张彤，陆垒，仇世杰
from left: Artist Zhu Ge, Zhang Dan, Lu Lei, Chou Shijie
“ 聚在一起的时候大家都顾着说话，没有太多合影留念。
这是当时大家做跑道的泥塑，最卖力攉泥的一张。”
'Looking back, there aren’t many group photos as we’re too busy talking the moment we got together. Here's one where we’re mopping clay onto the runway track during installation.'
堡 垒
Ensemble ：
参与的艺术家们愿意为此作出一次尝试，以人与人之间的互助和交流作为工作的基础。我们只有展览的组织架构和概念，没有任何可以展出的作品。在和冯兮的交流中，他给了我们极大的信任，这个项目才得以在当时的单行道画廊顺利实施。
Artists who participated in Ensemble were willing to experiment upon this notion and base their work on mutual assistance and interaction between people. Even though we only had an exhibition’s organizational structure and concept with no specific artworks to show, Feng Xi showed great confidence during our exchange, which thus led this project to proceed at One Way Art (Gallery).
「堡垒」，单行道画廊现场，2018
Ensemble © 2018 One Way Art
02
SGA ：
请用三个词汇来形容「堡垒」项目。
In 3 words, how would you describe your artist collective？
堡 垒
Ensemble ：
集体、互助、现场。
Collectivism, co-ordinate, on-site.
环形剧场由多块水泥板搭建，板上刻着：背负着灵魂向太阳飞去直到溶化在光芒中。
The amphitheatre's concrete walls were inscribed with the following message,
"Flying towards the sun with the burden of your soul
until it dissolves into the light." © 2018 One Way Art
03
SGA ：
在工作模式/状态 方面，您觉得艺术小组与艺术家个体的区别是？在团体环境中您遇到了哪些快乐/棘手的事？
How is it like working as an artist group as opposed to an individual? What are some tensions/ pleasures that arise from within the collective?
堡 垒
Ensemble ：
「堡垒」并非一个艺术小组，只是一个集体项目。在工作中，比较棘手的还是对集体这个概念的认识，集体项目与个体的区别在于：集体项目需要放下自我，投身到共同的事务中去，这与完整的自由表达是相悖的。
Ensemble is not an artist group; rather, it is a collective project. The tricky part while the artists are working together is understanding the concept of collectivism. The difference between doing a collective project and working as an individual is that contrary to the latter’s complete freedom of self-expression, in order to achieve the former, one has to let go of the self and commit to the common affairs.
「堡垒」项目中艺术家胡庆泰的作品，2018
Artist Hu Qingtai’s video work in Ensemble © 2018 One Way Art
堡 垒
Ensemble ：
因此建立共识是项目能开展的基础条件。对艺术、历史和政治的认知，都有可能形成共识或者交叉的路径，去建立个人之间的连接。可以说「堡垒」既是互助、也是相互妥协的结果。
Therefore, in order for the project to move forward, the primary condition is the construct of consensual collaboration. Whether it be our perceptions on art, history, or politics, all have the potential to fuse consensual or interjectory connections among individuals. Hence to say, Ensemble is the conglomeration of mutual assistance and compromise.
1956年，人民英雄纪念碑兴建委员会的干部们
在人民英雄纪念碑（建设中）前合影留念
Cadres of the People's Heroes Monument Construction Committee
pose for a group photo in front of the People's Heroes Monument
(under construction) in 1956
中译：吴良镛，《人民英雄纪念碑的创作成就》的建筑绘图
原文刊於《建築學報》1978年第2期
04
SGA ：
即便是团体，往往也会不经意地倾向于用等级制来划分每位成员的角色，比方说：将作者/领导权授予提供小组核心观念的一人。在「堡垒」项目中，你们是如何分配自己角色的啊？
There is a tendency to become hierarchical in spite of yourselves, granting authorship/leadership to whomever that has the most compelling plan or vision. How did you guys organise yourselves in the group?
堡 垒
Ensemble ：
这也是整个项目中最难的一点，所以我们将项目定义为共同发起和集体参与。
艺术家们习惯在自己的理论框架下来展开工作，个人如何在集体中找到自己的角色很难。因此在项目进行的设置中，自我需要被认定为多余的东西。整个展览的框架参照了人民英雄纪念碑的建造观念，艺术家需要把自己在其中角色定义为工人，在不同的环节完成自己擅长的工作。
Exactly. That's the most challenging aspect of the project, which is why we define ourselves as both co-founders and co-creators.
As mentioned before, artists are used to working within their own theoretical framework; this leads them to stumble to find their place under the project's collective setting since the individual ego is now determined superfluous. The entire framework borrows from the ideology behind the construction of The People's Heroes Monument in China, thereby reassuming the artist's role as a worker assigned along different exhibition segments to perform his specialised duty.
石青，《动物园的对面是天文馆》，高清录像 (彩色，有声)，62'，2018
Shi Qing, Opposite the zoo is the planetarium, video (colour, sound), 62', 2018
堡 垒
Ensemble ：
石青2018年的电影「动物园对面是天文馆」作为整个项目的开篇，为大家提供了可以想象的历史文本和图像，并一直贯穿到最后的集会。环形剧场的设计和建造完全由陆垒、仇世杰和诸鸽完成，出版物设计和图像传播由蒲英玮负责。而印刷工作室则负责连接所有人的工作，参与的艺术家都会以不同的方式进入到印刷工作室的工作当中。我们没有核心，只是分工有所不同。
Shi Qing's film, Opposite the zoo is the planetarium (2018), which opens as the first chapter, provides an imaginary piece of historical context and images that carry the exhibition through to its final assembly. The amphitheatre was designed and built by artists Lu Wei, Qiu Shijie, and Zhu Ge; whereas artist Pu Yingwei handled the project's publication design and image dissemination; and finally, the print studio- where participating artists are welcomed to express in their own ways- forms the thread that interweaves everyone's work into a whole. No one holds a priority role; we are simply distributed to different labour.
「堡垒」艺术项目的结构图，2018
A sketch of Ensemble's operation structure, 2018
05
SGA ：
您曾提到「堡垒」项目中印刷工作室的图像创作来源于：宇宙主义、建筑和劳动工具。为什么会选择这些元素？它们与该项目的创办有什么关联？
In Ensemble’s statement, it defined its influence from three elements: cosmism, architecture, and labour instruments. Why did you draw inspiration from these factors? How do they correlate with the project’s founding?
堡 垒
Ensemble ：
印刷工作室是记录我们日常交流和项目进程的容器。这三个元素是在展览开始一周之后才确定的，宇宙主义来自石青拍摄的电影，宇宙主义理论所强调的集体理性与社会主义的观点天然契合。建筑来自陆垒、仇世杰、诸鸽共同建造的环形剧场，它是所有集体主义建筑的影子，朝向天光的造型也呼应了前者在太空中复活的想像。
The printing studio functions as a vessel that documents all our daily communications and the project's progress. The three elements actually came to realisation a week after the exhibition had begun. 'Cosmism'- derived from Shi Qing's film- goes along perfectly with the perspective of socialism since it also emphasizes on the concept of collective rationality. 'Architecture'- represented by the amphitheatre jointly built by Lu Lei, Qiu Shijie, and Zhu Ge- is a reference to erected sky towers constructed under the premise of Collectivism that echo the former's dream to resurrect in outer space. 'Labour instruments' symbolises the shared identity among all participating artists in the exhibition.
搭建环形剧场，单行道画廊的主厅现场
Building the amphitheatre at the main hall © 2018 One Way Art
06
SGA ：
为何会选择提倡/强调工人阶级文化和集体性质为「堡垒」项目的概念核心？
Why do you seek to reactivate working-class culture and collectivism?
堡 垒
Ensemble ：
工人阶级文化这个说法其实很可疑，在传统的社会主义实践中，文化并没有特定的身份指涉，每一个人都有权利去从事艺术和写作。「堡垒」距离工人阶级实在是太远了，虽然我们有这样的角色定义，但整个项目还是针对艺术生产的。只是在艺术工业的生产环节中，艺术家的确更像是自我雇佣者，所以我们才会不断的警醒自己。
This claim about a working-class 'culture' sounds quite dubious. In traditional Socialism, culture does not carry any specific reference to identity- everyone has the equal right to engage in art and writing. Although we're each assigned a worker's role, far from becoming the working-class, Ensemble is ultimately a project geared towards producing an art event. If anything, artists are more likely the self-employed workers in the art industry's production stream who are constantly policing themselves.
剧场中放置的秃鹫是艺术家仇世杰以石青的电影里所提到的
宇宙中”复活“概念为灵感创造出的杰作。
Inspired by the concept of "resurrection" in the universe in Shi Qing's film,
artist Chou Shijie created these vultures within the amphitheatre.
© 2018 One Way Art
堡 垒
Ensemble ：
之所以强调集体，也是想确认个人作为历史的产物，在社会结构中是跟随者而非创造者。每一次看似开创式的工作，都不过是历史的碎片投射。因而才需要重新思考协作与互助、个人与集体之间的关系。
Our focus on the collective is also to acknowledge that the individual is an article of history; a follower rather than an innovator under the social structure. In fact, each seemingly pioneering endeavour sublates merely to a fragmented projection in history. Therefore, it is necessary to rethink the relationship between collaboration and mutual aid, between the individual and the collective.
「堡垒」项目在北京单行道画廊展出的印刷工作室，2018
The printing studio section © 2018 One Way Art
07
SGA ：
「堡垒」项目中所采用的版画技术和印刷图像似乎与中国近代历史相吻合，并带有革命宣传的意味。您能分享一下这种表达方式背后的想法吗？
Looking at your prints and the choice of your printmaking technique, they coincide with China’s recent history and carry a propaganda-punch. Could you explain your thoughts behind this form of expression?
堡 垒
Ensemble ：
我们需要视觉和观念一致性。既然「堡垒」的生产方式是基于社会主义历史的，那么我们在材料和图像的选择上也需要一致。当然还有一些浪漫主义的基因，仅仅是文本的生产者还不够，油印还需要去身体力行弄脏双手，这更强调身体的参与。
We needed to align the project’s visuals and concept. Since Ensemble is working in a mode of production based upon the history of Socialism, we must stay consistent in our choice of materials and images. There’s certainly a romanticism appeal here since being a printer is not enough. Mimeograph also requires one to get his hands dirty physically, which emphasizes the participation of the body.
「堡垒」项目在北京单行道画廊的电影放映现场，2018
Ensemble’s film screening setup © 2018 One Way Art
08
SGA ：
如今离「堡垒」项目已4年了，经过那次集体艺术项目，这对您自己的艺术实践有何影响？未来「堡垒」是否会重出江湖？
It has been 4 years since your last ensemble. How has working in a collective transformed your own artistic practice? Any possibility of Ensemble re-ensembling in the future?
堡 垒
Ensemble ：
集体项目并不会对个人的艺术实践产生影响。相反，是个人将自己的工作和热情带入到集体当中，去影响项目的进程，这才是项目可以进行的基础。共同工作与参与只存在于已经发生的现场，具备一定的突发性和偶然性，而未来的事无法预知。
Working in collective projects doesn't necessarily have an impact on an individual's artistic practice. Quite the contrary, a collective project’s progress is much dependent upon the fact that an individual brings his work and enthusiasm into its course. Working together and participation are affective only because they exist in a time-based and situational condition; in other words, they comprise a degree of suddenness and fortuitousness; we can never predict the future.
艺术家石青的另一幅影像作品, 2018
Another piece of video work by artist Shi Qing © 2018 One Way Art
09
SGA ：
您对2022年有什么期待/向往？
What are you guys most looking forward to in 2022?
堡 垒
Ensemble ：希望人们可以早日结束隔离状态，回到社会。
Hopefully, we could move past the quarantine state and return to society.
「堡垒」项目在北京单行道画廊的电影放映现场，2018
Ensemble’s film screening setup © 2018 One Way Art
* 沪申画廊诚挚感谢艺术家曾宏作为「堡垒」项目的代表，接受此次专访。
SGA would like to thank artist Zeng Hong who spoke on behalf
of Ensemble for accepting our interview.
点击“阅读原文”即可跳转至单行道画廊，了解更多关于「堡垒」的信息。
Click “Read More” for more information about Ensemble
at One Way Art Gallery’s official account.
图片提供/Image credit: 堡垒 Ensemble，单行道画廊 One Way Art
编辑/Editor: JY
设计排版/Layout Design: Alexa
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艺术漫谈 | 马文婷