视频 | 专访比尔·盖茨 + 沃伦·巴菲特：好奇心和阅读成就了我们！（附视频&对话稿） | 自由微信

Charlie Rose: Bill Gates and Warren Buffett are here. Gates is the co-chair of the Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation. The philanthropy focuses on education, poverty, and global health. Warren Buffett is Chairman and CEO of Berkshire Hathaway. The company is one of the most successful companies of the last five decades. The two have famously been friends for more than 25 years. Together they started the Giving Pledge in 2010, the initiative encourages the world's richest to donate the majority of their wealth to philanthropic causes. Buffet pledged the bulk of his wealth to the Gates Foundation in 2006, and has since given more than $24 billion to charities. I am pleased to have both of them back at this table. Welcome. And I have to say in the interest of full disclosure, we just did something like this at Columbia University with a thousand students. You two do this before. There is something special about the curiosity and the interest of young people wanting to know how do they learn from you. Wanting to know if you were starting over what would you do? Wanting to know about values. You do a lot of this.

Warren Buffett: Well, about the friendship, we met on July 5, 1991, and hit it off immediately. Bill was a little reluctant at first, but he got there.

Charlie Rose: Reluctant to come.

Warren Buffett: Yes, if it wasn't for his mother, we probably wouldn't know each other. And we have had a good time ever since. And we've cooperated on, particularly on the GivingPledge, but other things as well. And I have to say, everything about it has turned out well.

Charlie Rose: He sits on your board.

Warren Buffett: He sits on the Berkshire board, and we havea lot of fun talking about a lot of things. But the big thing that really came out of one of those discussions really was the Giving Pledge. That's worked out so much better than I ever anticipated, Charlie. I mean, I thought if we got 30, 40 people, you know--

Charlie Rose: And how many have you --

Warren Buffett: I think we're at 156 or something like that.And the people -- and now we've gone beyond the borders of the United States, which I didn't feel would originally happen.And people are learning more, our members, about effective philanthropy. They're learning about things that didn't work.They're learning about how people handle, within theirfamilies, wealthy families, and it's just worked out so muchbetter than I would've guessed six years ago or seven years ago.

Charlie Rose: Both of you have made the point that there are a lot -- because of success and technology, there are a lot ofpeople with a lot of money who are much younger.

Bill Gates: Yes, it's a great thing that these companies are doing so well. And as a group, I would say it's a particularlyphilanthropic group. I didn't give huge gifts until I was 45.Some of them in their 30s are already doing amazing things.

Charlie Rose: Why were you -- if the word is reluctant,reluctant to give earlier than that?

Bill Gates: I hadn't taken the time to understand where the huge payoffs were, and I was pretty maniacal about Microsoft. And only in my late 30s, with some encouragement from my wife Melinda, did I start to study it, talk with her about it. We knew we would do it by the time I was 60, but as we were doing that learning we decided we should accelerate it and, you know, we found a lot of ways that we thought we could have high impact.

Charlie Rose: And the principle, sort of, mission call was that all lives are equal.

Bill Gates: That's right. And a lot of that outside the United States has gone to save lives and have kids grow up to be healthy.

Charlie Rose: How did you decide that you would rather give your money to the Gates Foundation than create somefoundation of your own, and go out and find people to run itand do whatever you wanted to do.

Warren Buffett: Well, my first wife, Susie and I actuallystarted a foundation over 50 years ago, and we had talkedabout it since we were in our 20s. And I always thought I'd be red sheeted, didn't think I would be, but -- and I said to her, if I compound money at the rate I hope to compound money, there will be really large sums later on, and you're good at giving it away, I'm good at making it, so I'll make it first and you give it away. And she thought that was sort of half a cop-out and half logical. (LAUGHTER)

Charlie Rose: And probably told you so.

Warren Buffett: Yeah, absolutely. And so we did something, like I say, it was started over 50 years ago, but I really thought that there would be large sums later on, and that she was particularly good at empathizing with people, understanding their needs, putting the personal energy into it, everything. She would be better at giving away money than I would be, and she died in 2004, as you know. So then I had to re-think what I was going to do. And so in 2006, I decided that, essentially, five foundations, the Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation being the largest, and I'm looking for people that had similar goals with philanthropy that what I had. And the idea that every life is of equal value is just fundamental to me. You know, with your luck you can be lucky.

Charlie Rose: And you knew Bill would run it well.

Warren Buffett: Oh, of course. I mean, he was putting -- he had his own money up which is a big deal. But, far more than that, I mean, you had two much younger people, very bright, very hard working. They work much harder at this than most people do in this country in their jobs. And they were on the same track I was on, a proven quantity, I mean, everything about it made sense. And it's continued to make sense ten years later.

Charlie Rose: Bill talked about Melinda's influence. You have said to me about Susie, your late wife, I was a mess until I met Susie.

Warren Buffett: I think that's understating it. (LAUGHTER)She changed my life, there's no question about that.

Charlie Rose: How did she change your life?

Warren Buffett: Well, I was a very lop-sided, not welladjusted person who happened to be very good at one thing,and she put me together. I mean, it wasn't overnight, either, but she just had that little sprinkling can, and finally, she saw a few sprouts come up.

Charlie Rose: Was it a coming together of opposites or?

Warren Buffett: No, no, I wouldn't say that. We had very similar values, we were in sync in a very big way, but she was way more mature than I was. She was 19 when we got married, I was 21. I was about 12 emotionally. And she put me together. And like I say, it took time, but it changed my life. I would not have had roughly anything like the life I have had.

Charlie Rose: And what did Charlie Munger add?

Warren Buffett: Well, Charlie Munger, my partner of 57 or 58 years, and he's extremely wise. He's a wonderful friend.We've been partners that time, and he's strong minded, I'm strong minded, we disagree sometimes, we have never hadan argument in that whole time, and we never will.

Charlie Rose: Never had an argument?

Warren Buffett: Never had an argument. I won't lie. That's absolutely true.

Charlie Rose: But you must disagree on things.

Warren Buffett: Absolutely, we disagree.

Charlie Rose: So if you disagree, how do you decide to--

Warren Buffett: Well, what he says at the end is -- when we disagree, he says, well, Warren, you'll end up agreeing with me because you're smart and I'm right. (LAUGHTER) You know, where do I attack that particular problem?

Charlie Rose: I'm right, you're smart, you'll figure out I'm right.

Warren Buffett: Often he's right. I have to say that. Listen, I respect his opinion enormously whenever he gives it to me. I respect Bill's opinion. I mean, but it's more fun doing thing with partners. I mean, the most fun is, obviously, a marriage partner. And that's the most important relationship, but having a business partner, if I had done everything I had done -- it wouldn't have worked out this way, but let's say I got double the results, it's been more fun doing it with Charlie.

Charlie Rose: Who says no to Bill Gates?

Bill Gates: Well, Melinda Gates. (LAUGHTER)

Warren Buffett: I've seen it happen. (LAUGHTER)

Bill Gates: It's great when somebody knows, you know, when you might move too fast or be over optimistic. Or, you know, if a team comes in and I'm pointing out things we haven't done and, you know, maybe they're not as motivated afterwards. So, you know, they get me to correct that. I've matured a lot and I give Melinda immense credit. She still has work to do, but I think I'm getting there. And complementary strengths where you share the same goal is a great thing. I had that with Paul Allen in the early days of Microsoft. I had that with Steve Ballmer as Microsoft got going. Now both in my family life and the foundation, it's Melinda.

Charlie Rose: How much time do you spend at Microsoft?

Bill Gates: I'm there about 15 percent of the time. And I get to work just on the R&D part, brainstorming withpeople, thinking, OK, how are we going to take this artificialintelligence and make it understand, help you use your time better. It's a very exciting time in software. There's five companies that are, you know, in a really strong position.Microsoft is leading in some really cool stuff so --

Charlie Rose: Like? (LAUGHTER)

Bill Gates: Oh, the way that a business takes information about customers, about communication with customers, looking at data, that mission of really using data in A.I. and getting the productivity of all those workers up because they see more information, Microsoft is the leader on that. And it's a wonderful niche. You know, it's a multi-hundred billion-dollar niche that they're strong in. And they will be innovating along that line more in the next two years than ever in our history.

Charlie Rose: You have a passion for artificial intelligence, you do.

Bill Gates: Yes, it's the ultimate dream when you startworking on software is the kind of deep understanding and intelligence that humans have. So it's been the holy grail of when can the computer learn to play games, when can the computer learn to read, when can it understand speech. And things like speech and vision have made such progress in recent years. I mean, you've been tracking this and exposing your viewers to some of it, because I can't overstate that even for people in the field, it's a pretty magical time.

Charlie Rose: And its potential is to do what? Change everything?

Bill Gates: Well, in the first instance, to be the best assistant ever, to look at all your information and help you know in the few minutes between meetings what you should look at, or when you're trying to, you know, plan a trip, organize things, the things to be a much, much, much, much better assistant than it is today. And then, eventually, certain mechanical tasks like warehouse work or driving, that it would take that over. But for intellectual work, it will just magnify the creativity and make your time more valuable.

Charlie Rose: Are you interested in technology?

Warren Buffett: I don't have enough -- I don't think I have a natural -- bent that way to start with and I would be so far behind. I never would catch up with people that have beenworking on it. It would not be a game I would be winning.

Charlie Rose: Is a principle criteria for you understanding the business?

Warren Buffett: Yes, I have to understand the business. And there's lots of businesses I don't understand, some of themmay be almost un-understandable, and others are just outside my sphere of confidence.

Charlie Rose: But you do have people now that do have thatkind of expertise that you have brought in.

Warren Buffett: I have two people who themselves have different circles of competence, but they aren't chosen because they have a different circle, there is a lot of overlap, there's overlap between them, and the important thing is not how -- it's nice to have a huge circle of competence, it's much more important to know where the limits are of it. You can do very well if you only understand five percent of the businesses in the country. (LAUGHTER)

Charlie Rose: And find plenty of opportunities.

Warren Buffett: And you know which five, you've got the five percent are in that circle.

Charlie Rose: I mean, you've made a huge purchase in 2016.Precision was bought in 2016, $37 billion.

Warren Buffett: Including debt, $33 or 4 billion cash, and assumption of about $4 billion in debt.

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