对话思想者 | 百年大党引领中国模式
Wang Guan：This year also marks the centenary of the Communist Party of China, as you know, this year will also make the CPC one of the longest serving ruling parties in the world. What do you think is the significance of that?
王冠：今年中国共产党迎来百年华诞，今年也标志着中国共产党将成为世界上执政时间最长的政党之一。您认为这件事的意义是什么？
Danilo Türk：I think that one has to look at this anniversary in some very important, fundamental ways.
达尼洛·图尔克：我认为人们需要从根本上认识到中国共产党百年华诞的重要意义。
First, in terms of legitimacy of political leadership and political power in a big country, in an old civilization, which China is, you see, the Communist Party has demonstrated something that political theories call “performance legitimacy”.
首先，就一个大国和文明古国的政权合法性而言，中国共产党的表现印证了政治理论中所谓“政绩合法性”的概念。
There is no doubt that life of people in China has improved enormously in the last decades. Of course, that was possible because the base is upon which such opening and accelerated development came in as a natural continuation. So one has to learn about legitimacy of state, legitimacy of political leaders in terms of results and performance.
毫无疑问，在过去几十年里，中国人民的生活得到了极大的改善。当然，这之所以成为可能，是因为中国采取了改革开放战略，后来的加速发展也成为情理之中的事情。人们必须着眼于上述成绩和表现，才能理解中国政府和政治领导人的执政合法性。
And that I think the role of Communist Party of China is something special in global comparisons. In general, the Communist Party of China was able to ensure its continued legitimacy of leadership. That's one thing.
而且我认为比较全球不同的模式，中国共产党所扮演的角色是很特别的。总的来说，中国共产党能够确保其领导层一直以来的执政合法性。这是一方面。
The other thing is mobilization. During COVID-19, we have learned something about the capacity of China to mobilize its people. Now, some critics will say that this is too harsh or too difficult for Western society to do. Probably yes, but we should not underestimate the importance of the need to mobilize people when the needs arise. We have to be prepared for future pandemics.
另一方面是动员能力。在新冠肺炎疫情期间，我们目睹了中国动员人民的能力。一些批评者表示，这对西方社会来说太难做到了。这话也许没错，但我们不应低估在必要时刻动员人民的重要性。我们必须为未来的大流行病做好准备。
So mobilization is another thing which I think we have to learn about when we talk to the Chinese.
因此，当我们与中国人打交道时，我们必须认识到中国共产党强大的动员能力。
Wang Guan: So President Türk, you once remarked on the leading democratic system of the world, saying that they're really becoming the victims of their own complacency. They are falling into this confidence trap. Why do you say that and do you think the COVID-19 situation is a case in point?
王冠：图尔克总统，您曾经评论过世界上主要的民主体制，表示他们因为自满而跌落神坛，落入了自己挖的信心陷阱。您为什么这么说？您认为疫情防控是否就是一个典型的例子？
Danilo Türk: The conclusion or if you want, theory of the confidence trap is not mine. That comes from a British political analyst, political scientist, David Runciman, who wrote a whole book about the confidence trap and explained in great details and with many historic examples of how democratic systems show vulnerability to complacency.
达尼洛·图尔克：“信心陷阱”这个理论不是我的创造。英国分析家、政治学家大卫·朗西曼最先提出“信心陷阱”理论，他写了一本关于“信心陷阱”的书，并以许多历史实例详细解释了民主制度的弱点在于其自满情绪。
They become immersed and satisfied with the procedural aspects of democratic governance, and pluralism in the sense of a multi-party system being an end in itself. And that actually can lead to a rather complacent view of democratic systems and that creates what he called a confidence trap. And I agree, I think that he has presented valuable and valid analysis of democratic systems. I believe that we have to think seriously about it.
他们沉浸并满足于民主治理和多元政治的程序性方面，将多党制本身视为最终目标。而这实际上会导致关于民主制度的自满情绪，造成了他所说的“信心陷阱”。我对此表示赞同，我认为他对民主制度提出了宝贵且中肯的分析论证。我认为，我们必须认真思考这个问题。
Now, he also said that the democratic systems have the necessary flexibility to move out of the confidence trap when they are caught in such a threat, so right now, I think the pluralistic democracies of the West are learning how it is to democratically manage the situation caused by mass infections produced by COVID. That's a new situation for the West.
此外，他还表示民主制度具备必要的灵活性，当他们面临威胁时，可以走出“信心陷阱”，所以我认为西方的多元民主国家正在学习如何民主地管理疫情期间的大面积感染。这对西方而言是个新情况。
Wang Guan: Let's talk about China model. China has been praised for its ability to alleviate hundreds of millions of people out of poverty, its economic growth, and its delivery of public goods and services by its central and local governments over the years and also its relative consistency in its foreign policy making, if you think about it.
王冠：让我们来谈谈中国模式。中国这些年来的各项工作为人称道，包括让数亿人摆脱贫困，实现经济快速增长，中央和地方政府提供公共产品和服务保障，另外，如果您细想的话，中国的外交政策也是相对一贯的。
First of all, do you think there's such a thing as a China model? If so, do you think that China model is perhaps rewriting the textbooks of international political science?
首先我想问，您认为存在中国模式吗？如果存在，您是否认为中国模式或许正在重塑国际政治传统？
Danilo Türk: I'm sure that there is something like development with Chinese characteristics. China is a large and old civilization and China cannot simply import a development model from somewhere else. China has to develop its own development model and then obviously interact with the rest of the world and include whatever is helpful.
达尼洛·图尔克：我相信肯定存在中国特色的发展模式，中国幅员辽阔，历史悠久，不能简单地从其他地方引进发展模式，中国要有自己的发展模式，同时保持与世界各国的交流往来，吸收借鉴有益于中国的经验。
I mean the period of opening of China, which has started some 40 years ago, has been received from start as something very positive for the world.
中国的改革开放，始于40多年前，从一开始就被认为是对世界都有积极影响的事件。
Now some people believe that China will actually Westernize. Now, in my opinion, that was never an option. China is simply too large and too developed, an old culture, to be completely Westernized. It will be China but it will include much of Western wisdom, I’m sure. I think it would be useful if we, in the West, could import some of the Chinese wisdom as well.
有人认为中国实际上会西化，在我看来，这不可能发生，中国国土辽阔，历史文化悠久，怎么可能完全西化？中国就将是中国，但肯定也会汲取很多西方智慧。我想如果西方国家也能吸收借鉴中国智慧，对其必将大有裨益。
Will that have an impact on textbooks on political science and other things? Sure, it will. Because the importance of Chinese model is going to be studied. I have recently read a very interesting book by a professor from Yale University, United States, by name of Daniel Mattingly who wrote about governance of China.
这对政治学等学科的传统会不会有影响？当然有。因为人们会开始研究中国模式的重要性。我最近读了一本很有意思的书，是美国耶鲁大学的一位教授写的，作者名叫丹尼尔·马汀利。此书内容是关于中国的治理。
And it was very interesting that in the book, he makes comparisons between arrangements for development approaches, political systems, how they actually work in various parts of the world including, for example, the experiences from the United States where certain patterns of governance in various recent periods were very similar to those that were applied to China. Now that shows that models of development do influence each other or share some characteristics. But each of them remains its own. Nobody would suggest that United States should kind of abandoned the American way. Nobody should say that China should abandon the Chinese way.
这本书很有意思，作者将不同的发展模式、政治制度，以及它们在世界各地的实际应用情况进行了比较。书中还介绍了美国的经验，美国近代不同时期的某些治理模式，与中国曾采取过的治理模式非常相似，这表明发展模式确实会相互影响或具有一些共同特点。但是每个国家都有自己的发展模式。没人会劝美国放弃自身的发展模式，那也不应该有人去劝中国放弃其发展模式。