CGTN对话思想者 | 墨西哥前总统：RCEP参与国将受益于市场开放

Editor’s Note: On Feb. 1, the Regional Comprehensive Economic Partnership (RCEP) came into effect in South Korea. Ernesto Zedillo, director of the Yale Center for the Study of Globalization and former President of Mexico, stressed that open markets benefit participating countries, but he also cautioned that the attention to multilateral trading system should not be diminished when we opt for regional trade agreements, appealing to reinvigorate a truly open, non-discriminatory multilateral trading system. Speaking of democracy, he said it’s not always good to try to promote it from outside, and additionally that no country really has the “total clean moral authority” to do so. Views expressed in the video are his and do not necessarily represent those of CGTN.

编者按：2月1号起《区域全面经济伙伴关系协定》（RCEP）对韩国生效。美国耶鲁大学全球化研究中心主任、墨西哥前总统埃内斯托·塞迪略在接受CGTN主持人许钦铎专访时强调，RCEP参与国将受益于市场开放，但我们在促进区域自由贸易发展时，不应减少对多边贸易体系的关注。世界需要重振一个真正开放、非歧视性的多边贸易体系。谈到民主，他指出，从外部推动民主并不是好事，没有哪个国家拥有“绝对的道德权威”在全球范围内传播民主。本视频仅代表被访者个人观点，不代表CGTN的观点或立场。

Xu Qinduo: Globalization is in trouble. Regional free trade doesn't stop. RCEP, the Regional Comprehensive Economic Partnership, comes into effect in January. How will China, Japan, South Korea, Australia, New Zealand, and the ten ASEAN countries benefit from that?

虽然全球化进程遭遇逆流，但区域自由贸易并未因此停滞。《区域全面经济伙伴关系协定》(RCEP)于1月正式生效。中国、日本、韩国、澳大利亚、新西兰和东盟十国将如何从中受益？

Ernesto Zedillo: Anything that allows more open markets and their rules and mechanisms to enforce the rules is, in principle, convenient and better for the countries participating, of course, if the rules are good. 

任何有利于市场开放的规则和实施机制原则上都能为参与国带来便利和好处，当然，前提是规则得制定的好。

Now you push me in the argument. What I would like to see now is all political capital applied to reinvigorate the multilateral trading system. I think we need a truly multilateral system. What has happened is that by opting for second-best options, like regional trade agreements, the attention to the multilateral system has been diminished. And now we are seeing the consequences because that system is significantly weakened. What I would like to see in the next round is to see the U.S., China, the European Union, Japan, Korea, Latin American countries, reinvigorated to work for a truly open, non-discriminatory trading system that acquires, again, a mechanism of enforcement of the rules, because that mechanism of enforcement of the rules is now not in operation. The WTO has lost –temporarily I hope –a dispute-settlement understanding in the part of the tribunal that decides those disputes. And I think that's very unfortunate. So as a first step, countries should agree on how to put back in place the full implementation of the dispute-settlement mechanism of the WTO. But of course the agenda is very, very long on issues that are not yet looked after.

顺着你的问题，我来谈谈我的观点。我希望各国能将政治资本集于多边贸易体系振兴。我认为世界需要一个真正的多边体系。如今的情况，各国退而选择次优解，签定区域贸易协定，对（全球）多边体系的关注反而被弱化了。现在我们也看到了全球贸易体系严重受挫的后果。我希望接下来，美国、中国、欧盟、日本、韩国、拉美国家能够努力，重振一个真正开放的、非歧视性的、具备规则执行机制的贸易体系，因为如今的规则执行机制是失灵的。世贸组织上诉机构停摆，导致争端裁决机制受损，我希望这是暂时现象，同时也为此感到惋惜。因此，各国首先应就如何恢复全面落实世贸组织争端解决机制达成一致。但当然，在我们的任务清单上，还有一长串需要解决的问题。

Xu Qinduo: If you focus on China a little bit more, China has submitted its application to join the CPTPP, Comprehensive and Progressive Agreement for Trans-Pacific Partnership. So from the view of Mexico, which is a member of this organization, what do you make of China's application to join this CPTPP?

我们把目光转向中国，中国已正式提出申请加入CPTPP，即《全面与进步跨太平洋伙伴关系协定》。墨西哥是该组织的成员国，您如何看待中国申请加入CPTPP？

Ernesto Zedillo: I cannot speak on behalf of Mexico. I can speak as an academic. And I would say that China's initiative should be taken very seriously. Of course, these things happen only through a process of negotiation, but I think it will be excellent if country members and China found ways to have China a member of this association.

我的言论无法代表墨西哥，我只能作为一名学者发言。我认为，各国应当认真对待中国的申请。当然，这事还需通过谈判来确定，但我认为，如果各成员国和中国能够完成谈判使中国加入成功，那是最好不过的。

Xu Qinduo: The topic of democracy has been brought up a lot, especially by the United States, on many global and diplomatic matters. Most recently, the summit for democracy hosted by Joe Biden in the U.S. As a former president who labored for the promotion of democracy in the country which is a very important neighbor of the U.S., how would you comment on this unusual rise of discussions on democracy over the past few years?

在许多全球和外交场合中，美国等国经常提起民主话题。近期，乔·拜登在美国主持召开了民主峰会。作为前总统，您一直在为墨西哥的民主事业努力奋斗，而墨西哥是美国非常重要的邻国，您如何看待过去几年民主话题热度的上升，其中是否有蹊跷？

Ernesto Zedillo: Well, you know, this is not new. From time to time there are these initiatives to... the intention is to promote democracy, and I think that's a good intention. But one has to wonder how it is done. I think it is very hard to, and probably not always good, to promote democracy from outside. I think democracy must be a national aspiration. You must build a national consensus. You must have national leadership to promote that democracy, because when political ideas are promoted from abroad, usually you get a negative effect. So I'm not terribly supportive of these kind of initiatives. I think what we must promote are the universal values that are in the UN charter and also in the universal declaration of human rights. I think that's what we should be strong advocates. Because on the other hand, I don't think any country has really, let's say, the total clean moral authority to promote democracy. I think you have to promote respect to human rights, respect to freedoms, respect to freedom of speech, respect to freedom of beliefs, but you don't have to tell countries all be democratic according to my own standards. I think that is not terribly useful.

众所周知，这不是什么新鲜事。时不时就会有这样那样的倡议，要促进民主，我认为其本意是好的。但问题的关键是促进民主的方式。我认为从外部植入民主非常困难，而且可能并不一定是好事。民主必须是一国人民的共同理想，必须建立起全国共识。民主促进事业需要由国家政府来主导，如果他国强行植入政治思想，通常会产生负面效果，所以我并不支持这类举措。我认为我们必须提倡联合国宪章和世界人权宣言范围内的普世价值。我认为这才是我们应该大力提倡的价值观。反过来说，我认为没有哪个国家拥有绝对的道德权威在全球范围内传播民主。我认为你可以提倡尊重人权、尊重自由、尊重言论自由、尊重信仰自由，但不能要求各国都按照你的标准来建设民主。我认为这么做的效果并不好。

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