知己知彼，声击人心：对话秦思源｜Interview with Mr. Colin Siyuan Chinnery

 Interview with Mr. Colin Siyuan Chinnery 

原文标题：

知己知彼，声击人心：对话秦思源

Knowing Thyself and Striking a Note with Sound: Interview with Mr. Colin Siyuan Chinnery

2020年2月29日晚，一场UCCA×快手“园音”线上音乐会开启了前所未有的跨时空音乐接力，这场新冠病毒疫情期间特别的音乐现场直播，不仅给宅在家中关注艺术的人带来很多鼓励，也以艺术家的想象力延展了未来艺术呈现的更多可能。作为“园音”项目的发起艺术家，秦思源虽然为没能在UCCA如期进行的演出和研讨略感遗憾，但他也把这段“沉静隔离”的时期作为整理、思考和建立声音艺术分享与互动平台的机会。从“少林小子”到当代声音艺术家，自幼就与中国有不解之缘的秦思源在2002年将自己工作和生活的重心都转移到了中国北京，潜移默化中他也成为了中国当代先锋艺术的参与者和见证者。艺讯网特别以秦思源先生所从事的声音艺术入手进行专访，从他的视角来回顾中国当代艺术在过去近二十年间的历程。

On the evening of February 29, 2020, a “Voluntary Garden” online concert co-presented by UCCA x Kuaishou has initiated an unprecedented cross-temporal relay of music. This special live music broadcast during the pandemic of COVID-19 did not just encourage those who are concerned about art but have to stay at home; it has also extended more possibilities for future art using artists’ imagination. As the initiator of “Voluntary Garden”, Mr. Colin Siyuan Chinnery although felt regret as the performance and seminar could not be put on as scheduled, he also regarded this period of “quiet isolation” as a chance that he could sort out his creations, think and establish a platform where he can share sound art and interact with others. From a “Kungfu boy” to a contemporary sound artist, Mr. Colin Siyuan Chinnery who has been inextricably linked to China since his childhood, shifted the focus of his work and life to Beijing from 2002. Imperceptibly, he becomes a participant and witness of avant-garde contemporary art in China. CAFA ART INFO conducted a special interview with Mr. Colin Siyuan Chinnery focusing on the sound art that he has been engaged in, and he reviewed the history of contemporary Chinese art over the past two decades from his perspective.

UCCA×快手“园音”线上音乐会，图源：UCCA公众号

“Voluntary Garden” online concert co-presented by UCCA x Kuaishou. Source: UCCA WeChat Account

受访人：秦思源 

Interviewee: Mr. Colin Siyuan Chinnery 

采访人& 编辑：Sue Wang  

Interviewer & Editor: Sue Wang  

采访时间：2020年3月6日

Interview Date: March 6, 2020

艺讯网：作为跨文化的声音艺术家，您的个人经历非常丰富，曾经有报道评价您“比中国人更了解世界，比外国人更深谙中国文化”。那先从声音艺术谈起，您最早做”声音收集“的初衷是什么？收集的第一条声音是在什么时候？什么内容？对您来说有什么意义？

CAFA ART INFO: As a cross-cultural sound artist, your personal experience is so rich that there has been a report stating that you “know the world better than the Chinese, and you have a better understanding of Chinese culture than foreigners.” Let’s start with sound art. What was your original intention in collecting sound? When did you collect your first sound? What was it about? What did it mean to you?

秦思源先生：最早我在2005年做过一个项目叫“都市发声”（Sound and the City)，这是我第一个项目也对我影响比较大，因为声音在当时看上去是比较另类的媒介，当时带来的社会反响也是蛮大的。这个项目当时牵扯到很多普通生活里的声音，可是这种普通的声音又可以作为个人经历与历史或者社会、文化之间的桥梁。我个人开始做声音项目是源于史家胡同博物馆筹备时的契机，当时他们是想做老北京生活题材的博物馆，还没有确定具体定位。因为我有这方面的经历，所以我当时建议如果是做老北京题材的话，声音挺有意思的。因为之前有做”都市发声“项目的录音素材，所以我就产生用声音做北京历史的想法。因为国内限制太多，实现上有很多困难，所以我只能触碰老北京1958年以前的一些传统文化或者是改革开放以后的一些收集。绝大部分的中国近代历史是不能碰的，所以我最初的想法不能成立，我转而从老北京文化入手，于是我开始录一些叫卖或者吆喝这些游商文化的声音，所以这是我声音收集的起点。

Mr. Colin Siyuan Chinnery: As early as 2005, I did a project entitled “Sound and the City”. This was my first project and it had a great influence on me. Sound seemed to be an alien media at that time, but the social response of that project was quite thought-provoking. This project involved so many voices in ordinary life, but this common voice can also serve as a bridge between personal experience and history, society and culture. I started to work on sound art since preparing a project for Shijia Hutong Museum. At that time, the museum intended to present life in old Beijing, but had not yet determined a specific theme. As I have experience in this field, I suggested that if it was on old Beijing, sound could be interesting. As I had recorded materials for the project of “Sound and the City”, I came up with the idea of using sound to present the history of Beijing. As there are many restrictions here and there are many difficulties in implementation, I can only realize my ideas by using traditional culture in Beijing before 1958 or from after China’s opening-up of 1979. Most of China’s modern history cannot be touched, so my initial ideas couldn’t be done. I started with the old culture in Beijing, so I recorded sounds of itinerant traders. This was the start of my work on sound.

秦思源与老北京收藏家阿龙录音 2018年 录像截屏

Mr. Colin Siyuan Chinnery did recording with Along, a collector of old Beijing items in 2018, Screenshot

艺讯网：您刚才提到了北京史家胡同博物馆是您声音收集的起点也曾在国内外引起很大反响。这类公益项目的推进是否也面临着困难，您是否也参与了其他公益类项目？2018年时您在北京坊做的结合北京南城文化的声音装置“声坊”（Hawker’s Refrain)项目被列为了公共计划永久收藏，您是否还在做类似的声音公共项目？

CAFA ART INFO: Your sound booth at the Shijia Hutong Museum (2013-) is one of your representative projects and has attracted a lot of attention at home and abroad. Is it difficult to promote such non-profit projects? Are you still working on similar non-profit projects? Another project, entitled “Hawker’s Refrain”, has been collected by Beijing Fun. Are you working on similar public sound projects?

秦思源先生：今年我们将对史家胡同博物馆声音项目的内容和设备都进行更新，其他的项目我也会继续做但是不会称为“声音博物馆”了，因为“声音博物馆”太容易使大家产生误会，而我做的内容并不是博物馆，我的核心身份就是艺术家，我所做的事就是把一个个项目串起来的个人行为，不像官方或者公立支持的真正的博物馆或者档案馆，能够系统性地收藏、归类成为一个工程项目。我倒没有遇到特别的困难，也就是针对项目进行工作。像“北京坊”他们是想找一些国内外艺术家到北京坊做公共艺术，因为大栅栏原来就是个老北京商业中心，后来呢就变得很破落，可是解放前那里很繁华。我在当时已经收集了很多北京游商文化的声音，包括叫卖、响器和鸽子哨等声音，所以我想可以用这些声音来应对那里的环境。当然公共艺术都是不容易推进的，因为它是面对大众，它不像美术馆环境下的展示和参观人数，所以推进稍微慢一些很正常。

我去年去了理塘做其他的项目，是在川藏地区，他们是需要进行当地文化的声音记载。因为我在记录很多正在消逝的声音，所以我觉得他们还是保有传统生活的方式，特别是牧民生活还有他们的宗教生活，所以还是贴近以前传统与自然的关系，这是很宝贵的。

秦思源在理塘录音藏戏洛绒彭措戏师 录像截图

Mr. Colin Siyuan Chinnery collected the performance sound of Luorongjiacuo who is a performer of Tibetan Drama at Litang, Screenshot

我现在的项目叫做“声音总站”，这里可以作为我一个新的站点。今年我本来要在成都附近做个比较丰富的项目，也包括声音各个方面的一些活动，因为疫情来了，所以这个项目得往后推了。我也用我收集的老北京声音与电子音乐家黄锦合作进行了音乐创作：“声击”，我已经进行了三次演出，第一次是在今日美术馆，第二次是在木木美术馆隆福寺”大卫·霍克尼”展览开幕现场表演，第三次是在新的音乐平台“声音中国”发布进行演出，结合响器的声音变成打击乐，探索的是怎么用非物质文化遗产方面的声音来创作当代音乐。我们今年还会把这个项目扩大变成专辑。

慢慢地这一两年我会继续拓展声音的概念，之前我做的很多工作是跟老北京有关系，是因为我就住在北京而且我发现声音收集方面的工作好像没有人在做，既然我开始做了我就应该把这些工作做好做完。所以我找了一些真正在解放前从事叫卖的人，现在也就剩一个人，杨德山老先生，来做声音的收集，想多做一些记录。然后我还要面对很多现在正在消失的声音，包括像中国养鸟的文化，但是现在饲养野生动物是犯法的，所以说现在养鸟等于是个违法行为，买卖已经完全禁止了。所以等这些养鸟人逝去，这个文化也就消失了。还有很多在公园里玩的这些人也被管地越来越严了，所以他们发挥自己兴趣爱好的空间越来越小。

这些正在消失的声音也不仅是北京的问题，全国也都无差别的。像北京坊那样的声音项目，也属于雅俗共赏的内容，既针对现在，又针对过去，这种声音装置和公共艺术，我也希望在不同的城市可以进行探讨，有当地的传统文化也有当地的声音项目可以做。我所做的公共艺术项目就是希望声音能与城市互动，通过技术手段实现更好的呈现。所以接下来我也希望我可以进行拓展，从北京拓展到全国。我最近在UCCA进行的项目“园音”就是当代艺术的项目，它是把音乐当成声音素材，来进行拼贴然后转型成另外一种音乐。既可以说是音乐，也可以说是声音，当然这是个艺术作品。

Mr. Colin Siyuan Chinnery: This year, we will update the content and equipment of the project at the Shijia Hutong Museum. I will also continue with other projects but they will not be called “Sound Museum” any more. As “Sound Museum” might easily lead to a misunderstanding, as what I do does not belong to the remit of a museum. My core identity is as an artist and I do personal projects, unlike a real museum supported by the government or a public fund that needs to collect and classify their contents into a formal archive. I have not encountered any particular difficulty and I have just worked on individual projects one by one. Beijing Fun wanted to work with some Chinese and foreign artists to create public art there, as Dashilan was originally a commercial center of old Beijing and it was very prosperous before liberation, but it later became very rundown. When I received this commission, I had collected a lot of sounds of itinerant trading culture in Beijing, including sounds of street hawking, sounding instruments, pigeon whistles and so on. Thus I thought I could use these sounds to form an environment there. Public art is not easy to make, as it is for a general public, unlike visitors to exhibitions in art museums who know what to expect.

I went to Litang last year for another project, it is in the Sichuan-Tibet area, and they needed to make sound recordings of their local culture. Because I am recording disappearing sounds, I think they still have a traditional way of life, especially the life of herders and their religious life. They have a very close relationship between tradition and nature, which is of great value.

My current project is called “Sound Terminus” and it can be taken as a new site for myself. I have planned a multifaceted project near Chengdu, which includes many aspects of sound art. As the coronavirus spread, this project had to be postponed. I have also used the sounds of old Beijing I collected to collaborate with electronic musician Huang Jin for music work: “Hawker’s Rhythm”, we have performed it three times, the first time was at Today Art Museum and the second time at the opening of the David Hockney exhibition at the M WOODS Hutong, the third live performance was conducted upon the release of the new music platform “Sound China”. Combining with sounds of Beijing sounding instruments, we’re exploring how to create contemporary music with old heritage sounds. We will expand this project into an album later this year.

Gradually I will continue to expand the concept of sound in the next few years. Much of my previous work was related to old Beijing, because I live in Beijing and I find that there’s no one doing this type of work here yet. Since I have started, I should finish the work. Therefore I have found some people who were actually engaged in hawking before 1949 though there is only one person still alive, Mr. Yang Deshan, who I have recorded several times. There are a lot of sound that are disappearing now, including the culture of bird keeping in China. It’s illegal to raise any wild animals now, it’s also illegal to capture or keep wild birds, and trading is completely forbidden. When these bird keepers passed away, this culture will disappear. People who used to play in the park are confronted with more and more regulations, so that they have less and less space to play their hobbies.

These disappearing sounds are not just a issue in Beijing, there is no difference across the country. A sound project like the one I made for Beijing Fun is easy to understand, and related to both past and present. I’d like to explore this kind of sound installation and public art in various cities, I hope there are some sounds projects combined with local traditional culture that I can be involved in during the future. My public art project encourage the interaction between sounds and the city, and technology can make it easier to create and present. Therefore I hope I can expand it from Beijing to the whole country. My recent project at UCCA, “Voluntary Garden” is a contemporary art project. Taking music as sound material, I have made collages with it and transformed it into another kind of music. It can be regarded as music or sound art, but basically it’s an artwork.

“收了”——听见老北京 “收了”拍照

Sola-Hearing Old Beijing, Photo by Sola

艺讯网：您曾提到过”声音像嗅觉，能够触发唤起人的情感和记忆”，也就是现在所谓的“穿越感”，您希望人们能通过声音作品与社会进行互动，这种互动您指的是什么形式的互动？您又期待能带来怎样的影响？

CAFA ART INFO: You once mentioned that “sound is like smell as it can trigger emotions and memories, which might be currently called a “transcending” feeling. You hope that people can interact with society with sound works, what kind of interaction do you mean? What impact do you expect from this interaction?

秦思源先生：我有正在谈的项目，是专门探讨八十年代的声音。这个收集起来可能是非常困难的，我本身是没有什么素材，这个就需要通过社会征集，所以我想通过网络或者微博来征集，我也正在建一个网站，通过这个网站别人可以上传自己录的声音。我想通过网络跟广大社会进行沟通，问问大家关于八十年代的声音，你们有没有记忆？你父母家人有没有什么记忆？其实这样就把这个话题打开了，就会有很多很多线索，然后通过这些线索就会有具体的案例，然后就可以找办法把这个声音录下来或者说还原。这样的社会互动通过网络通过线上的沟通，可以真正地跟更多人交流，然后把他们这个八十年代的记忆再唤醒起来，唤醒到生活里面具体的细节，然后看有什么有意思的声音可以探讨。

声音记录这个过程我得慢慢来，我做的事情还比较少，所以我觉得如果能探索越来越宽，有越来越丰富的想法，这个对我来说就是很值得做的事情。如果越往前走越窄，没什么可探索了也局限了我的想象力，那这样的话就的确遗憾了。目前为止我觉得这两年状态还不错，特别是今年接下来要做的事情还是很宽泛的，我对接下来的工作充满了期待。

秦思源肖像 摄影师张驰

Portrait of Mr. Colin Siyuan Chinnery, Photo by Zhang Chi

Mr. Colin Siyuan Chinnery: I have a project under discussion, which is about the sounds of the 1980s. The process of collecting such sounds will be quite difficult, I don’t have any material at hand, which means I need to collect materials from society. I want to collect them through social media. I am also building a website through which other people can upload their own recordings. I want to communicate with a wider society through the Internet. I would like to ask people whether they have memories about the sounds in the 1980s. Do their parents and family have any memories. This topic will be open to all and hopefully online responses and discussions will allow me to identify lots of specific sounds to record. This kind of social interaction can only be realized through online communication, awakening memories of the 1980s, especially the specific details of life, then I will see what kind of interesting sounds can be further discussed.

I’d like to slowly conduct the process of sound recording, what I have done is far from enough, so that I feel that if I can explore wider, I will gradually get more interesting ideas.  This is the point of it for me. If my work gets narrower and narrower then there won’t be any point to it. Right now, I feel that my ideas are broadening out, so I am optimistic about my future projects.

艺讯网：2003年非典时期您是否也在北京？当时是什么状态？2020年春节，新冠状病毒肺炎在中国的蔓延，现在也波及到亚洲和欧洲其他的国家……疫情发生时，您是在北京？是否受到了影响？日常的工作如何进行？这场疫情相比非典对您是否有新的启示？您身边的朋友们和工作伙伴状态怎么样？

CAFA ART INFO: Did you also stay in Beijing during the SARS period in 2003? How were you at that time? In the Spring Festival of 2020, the spread of new coronavirus pneumonia in China, has influenced other countries in Asia and Europe…when the epidemic occurred, were you in Beijing? Does it affect you? How do you proceed with your work? Does the epidemic present any new implications for you compared to SARS? How are your friends and work partners around you?

秦思源先生：我当然对疫情的传播是担忧的，我没有对自己的安全担忧，只要自己防护好其实没有什么问题。可是会有一些偶然的因素当你发现之后会有一些后怕，幸好也是有惊无险。我自己的工作方面，虽然展览中止了演出不能做了，我们也还好比较积极地来面对这些事情。本来我们还有两场演出要在UCCA进行，如果就不做了感觉有点消极，态度有点不够有想象力。后来UCCA就跟快手合作了线上音乐会直播（2月29日），本来我的展览是3月1日结束，所以正好在展览结束的前一天做这么一次演出也挺好的。最后特约嘉宾比如坂本龙一、新裤子乐队的彭磊和庞宽的参与，他们本来不是“园音”的艺术家，但是他们也很愿意参与，又特别积极和认真。所以本来很被动的事情变成很积极的事。然后通过这个线上的音乐会，关注度要比普通的音乐会多很多倍，所以这样积极的应对也挺好。

另外疫情初期时我也在筹备我个人的网站以后会公布我的最新动态，我也在搭建我的“声音总站”平台，平时这些工作是很枯燥的，没有特殊时期这些枯燥的工作是很难抽出时间来做，现在正好正合适，我也计划我的网站在4月1日上线。我周围的朋友也基本都是艺术家，很多人的项目可能是暂时搁后了，其实做一些整理资料作品，思考方案还是很好的时机。

2003年我刚来北京一年，当时没有特别紧张，虽然当时死亡率比现在高很多，可是传播力度没有这次这么大。我就好像没什么印象带口罩，就注意洗手和接触的平面就行。我早就知道非典的信息，当时信息没有现在流通快，受影响最大的应该是医护人员，那时候我们没有感觉到恐慌。

秦思源先生在2000年10月17日向到访大英图书馆的中国文化部代表团介绍“国际敦煌学项目” ©️British Library

Colin Chinnery (IDP) making a presentation on IDP to the Chinese Minister of Culture, Sun Jiazheng, and his delegation,

The British Library, 17 October 2000 ©️British Library

Mr. Colin Siyuan Chinnery: Of course, I am worried about the spread of the epidemic. I’m not terribly worried about myself. As long as I protect myself by social distancing and disinfecting, there shouldn’t be a problem. But you can’t control the unexpected, which is scary to find out afterwards. In terms of my own work, although the show was cut short, I thought it important to be proactive. We originally had two more performances to do at UCCA. Simply cancelling them would be negative and unimaginative. Therefore, UCCA cooperated with Kuaishou on a live streamed concert (February 29th). Originally, my exhibition ended on March 1st, so it was good to have such a performance just the day before the end of the exhibition. In the end, special guests such as Sakamoto Ryuichi, Peng Lei and Pang Kuan of the New Pants Band participated. They were not artists of “Voluntary Garden", but they were willing to participate and took it very seriously. So what was originally negative became very positive. Also the online concert attracted far more attention than ordinary concerts, so this positive response was also rewarding.

In addition, at the beginning of the epidemic, I was also preparing my personal website to announce my latest developments. I was also setting up my "Sound Terminus" platform. Usually these tasks were boring. It was difficult to do these repetitive tasks without a special period. It is the perfect moment to do them, and I plan to launch my website in April. Most friends around me are artists. Many people's projects will be postponed for the time being. In fact, it is still a good time to sort materials and think about different perspectives.

I had just been in Beijing for one year in 2003. At that time, I was not particularly nervous. Although the mortality rate was much higher than now, the transmission rate was far lower. I don't seem to remember wearing a mask, just remember washing my hands and cleaning surfaces a lot. I knew about the SARS outbreak well before it was officially recognized. At that time, information was not circulated very quickly. The most affected people were medical staff. At that time, we didn't feel in danger.

艺讯网：您曾提到过童年对北京的记忆就是“灰色”，人都没什么积极性……您是从2002年开始定居北京，现在的北京，从物质到精神都比以前丰富很多，您觉得近十年来北京的当代艺术环境和艺术家群体与之前相比有什么显著的变化？

CAFA ART INFO: You mentioned before that your childhood memories of Beijing were “grey” and people were not very energetic…You have been settled in Beijing since 2002 and now both material and spiritual life seem to be richer in Beijing, what do you think of the significant changes in Beijing’s contemporary art environment and artist community over the past decade?

秦思源先生：最显著的变化应该是物质增长了很多倍，但是精神方面我觉得弱了很多。物质方面是增加了当代艺术的体制包括公立美术馆、各种私营美术馆、博览会、画廊等等，整个体制比以前要丰富很多很多，可是这个体制基本上围绕的是市场，学术方面其实是退步了，以前是更丰富，现在是更单调。所以这不是个简单地往前走发展的关系，其实有些方面我觉得是不如以前。以前匮乏的是资源，有些思考和内容还是更自由，更好玩。现在是系统大了，可是有一定的制约。所以现在的艺术体制比较的物质化。现在的这种情况不是特别有利于非常优秀的艺术家出现。不像早一些的艺术家想的没那么多，可能就是内容本身。现在各方面技巧性强的艺术家很多，但是不太利于出现很跳跃性跨时代的艺术家。

Mr. Colin Siyuan Chinnery: The most significant change is increase in material living, but spiritually it might be weaker. The contemporary art system has become a lot stronger, with new private art museums, commercial galleries, art fairs, etc. However, it relies heavily on the art market, and the non-profit sector is still rather weak. The content side used to have more variety, but it has become rather predictable recently. So this is not a situation that simply improves over time. In fact, I think content wise it’s perhaps more limited than before. In the past, we had less money and more ideas. Now the system is bigger, but there are more restrictions. Therefore, the current art system is relatively commercial. This situation is not particularly conducive to the emergence of very good artists. Unlike earlier artists who didn’t have a market to think about, they only had to try to make better or more adventurous work than other artists. Young artists now are very skilled and versatile, but they’re more likely to use readymade formal languages rather trying to invent their own.

艺讯网：目前还有一种悲观的声音认为，因为这场疫情的影响，好多的展览和艺术博览会都暂停或者取消，有一些画廊或者艺术机构正面临经营上的困难……但是疫情之后一方面可能会出现爆发性的展览扎堆，但是另外一方面反而不会刺激艺术市场的增长，因此可能会对艺术生态圈造成一定的影响，您是怎么看待这样的预测？

CAFA ART INFO: Currently, there is a pessimistic opinion that, for the impact of this pandemic, many exhibitions and art expos have been suspended or cancelled, some galleries or art institutions are been confronted with operational difficulties…but after the pandemic, there might be a boom of exhibitions on the one hand, but on the other hand it might not stimulate the growth of the art market, thus it might exert some negative influence on the art ecosystem. What do you think of these predictions?

《少林小子》剧照 秦思源在左边拿着卷轴

“Kungfu boy”, Stage Shot, Mr. Colin Siyuan Chinnery stood on the left holding a scroll

秦思源先生：我没有那么悲观，我就觉得现在中国的艺术生态，一方面看上去感觉特别活跃特别好，一方面你又会觉得其实它背后有很多问题；我刚也提到了物质化现象……现在有疫情影响的事情，一开始肯定大家调整起来很困难，特别是那些积蓄不多的小画廊，但是通过这样的影响我希望这个生态会有所调整。因为在2009年的经济危机之前，中国艺术市场是非常肮脏的，那时候基本上都是炒作，艺术家炒作，艺术家和画廊、拍卖行串通一气做一些局，炒作市场。然后当时有些得意忘形的艺术家现在都消失了，因为那些人很多是非常差的但是赚钱非常多。当时是很粗暴很初期的市场行为，那个时候的收藏家绝大部分都跟收藏没有任何关系，他们就是看到市场可以投机非常野蛮的立场，房地产市场已经受到控制，于是他们又开辟了一个可以“无法无天”的市场，那时候艺术很薄弱，而炒作的集团又很庞大，经济危机之后泡沫被打碎，这些人就消失了。随后很多海归年轻的收藏家开始出头露面，很多严肃艺术家和很多新的杂志刊物，新的私营美术馆都是从那个时候重新构成的艺术生态，所以就比之前要健康很多。现在这个疫情是否会有同样的作用，我们还不知道，可是我希望通过这个疫情会有一些积极的作用。虽然对很多人来讲这是个困难，但是这个困难当中需要调整什么，哪些东西需要调整，可能又会出现新变化，也可能没有之前经济危机那么彻底。

Mr. Colin Siyuan Chinnery: I'm not so pessimistic, I think that the Chinese art ecology is particularly active, on the one hand you also feel that there are actually many problems behind it - I just mentioned the materialization phenomenon ... now there is also the effect of the epidemic. At the beginning, it will be difficult for everyone to adjust, especially the small galleries that don't have a lot of capital. However, I hope that the ecology will change through such influence. Because before the economic crisis in 2008-2009, the Chinese art market was very problematic. There was a lot of collusion between artists, collectors, and auction houses to artificially inflate artists’ prices. A lot of very bad artists made a lot of money. It was very rough and poor market behavior. Most collectors at that time had nothing to do with collecting. They just saw the opportunity of manipulating an unregulated market. The real estate market was already being controlled, so they sought out another “lawless” market. The art system was weak at that time, and the speculative groups had a lot of clout. After the economic crisis, the bubble was burst and speculators disappeared. Later, many young collectors returned from abroad and began to make things happen. A lot of serious artists and a lot of new magazines and publications, new private art museums emerged and they reconstituted the art ecology from that time, so it was much healthier than before. Whether this epidemic will have the same effect now, we don't know yet, but I hope this epidemic will have some positive effect. Although it’s going to be difficult for many people, things might change for the better after the epidemic, but probably in a very different way compared with 2008-2009.

 17+乐队合作，乐空间，北京2019年4月10日，九尚拍照

17+Band Cooperation, YUE SPACE, Beijing on 10 April, 2019; Photo by 9SHANG

艺讯网：您曾经用“乱”来总结自己空前绝后的经历，名人之后，学过武术，当过主唱，做过研究员……现在您是声音艺术家和策展人，您如何定位自己现在和今后的工作方向？有什么计划？

CAFA ART INFO: You once used “complicated” to summarize your “unprecedented” experience. You were born into an intellectual family, you have learned martial arts, you were a lead singer in a rock band and you used to work as a researcher…Now you are a sound artist and curator, how do you position yourself now and plan your future work?

秦思源先生：我这两年基本终止了策展人的身份，但是我的“声音总站”会作为一个平台，我也会据此策划一些活动，作为项目来讲我可以跟其他的机构合作，这个平台由我来策划。我将专门给自己策划，侧重点将完全不一样；另外我参与的机构掩体空间，我负责那里的展览项目，我们整个团队都是志愿者。这个机构有点像小组做的机构，每个人有自己的任务，我的任务是策划展览，这项工作我还将继续。

Mr. Colin Siyuan Chinnery: I have stopped my individual curatorial activities. I am working on my Sound Terminus platform, which includes art projects, cultural projects, and curatorial projects. Unlike my previous curatorial work for museums and galleries, all my curatorial activities will be under the remit of Sound Terminus. This is a versatile platform that will explore all kinds of directions, both non-profit and commercial. I also work for the Beijing non-profit art space The Bunker. Our team functions like a group or collective. We are all volunteers, and each of us have specific tasks. My responsibility is to run the exhibition program.

艺讯网：“园音”展览和表演项目（2019年11月10日－12月9日在合艺术中心，2019年12月12日至2020年3月1日在UCCA）是您对影像和声音进行解构重组，创作的声音艺术视频装置作品，从“收集声音”到“创作声音”，您觉得这个项目的实验性意义是什么？您又期待达到什么样的效果？在2020年2月29日进行的“园音”线上音乐会：良乐可以说是一次新的尝试，第一次以直播的形式进行，您后续进行视频装置创作是否会采取不同的形式结合新的元素？

CAFA ART INFO: “Voluntary Garden” exhibition and performance project (2019.12.12-2020.3.1 Fusion Art Center, 2019.12.12-2020.03.01 UCCA), is a project that you invited musicians to who have not collaborated before or may have never even met, they come together to improvise on stage, despite only having the shared contact of “playing” together in the musical piece edited by you. Then you deconstruct and reorganized the video and sound, creating sound art and video installation works. From “collecting sound” to “creating sound”, what do you think of the experimental significance in this project? What do you expect from it? Another version of “Voluntary Garden” was presented as a live show on Kuaishou, maybe it’s the first time for it to be performed as a live broadcast, will you reedit the video and create video installations later in various forms? or with new elements?

园音 李剑鸿演出 合艺术中心 宋晓辉拍照

“Voluntary Garden”, Performance by Li Jianhong at Fusion Art Center, Photo by Song Xiaohui

园音 UCCA 秦思源拍照

“Voluntary Garden” at UCCA 

Photo by Mr. Colin Siyuan Chinnery

秦思源先生：我希望这件作品将会巡演到更多的城市和国家，来面对不同的观众，至少是跨艺术和音乐两个范围。它并不是很难被理解或者欣赏的作品，然后就是作品本身，通过“园音”我接触了很多特别优秀的艺术家然后也交了很多朋友，他们也很喜欢这种演出和呈现的方式。所以它的价值就在于通过这件事，我也学了很多东西，认识了一些很值得珍惜的人，这些也会促使我以后产生新的想法。那以后这个展览到别的地方，肯定会有演出。我也希望这件作品以后能到国外去展，这些中国的音乐家又会跟当地艺术家形成新的对话，形成新的概念。我还不知道我的作品将来会怎样延续。

Mr. Colin Siyuan Chinnery: I hope this work will tour to various cities and countries to face different audiences. It is not a work that people have difficulty in understanding or appreciating. Through the work itself I have met many good musicians and made a lot of new friends. I have also learned a lot from the whole process of doing the project, which is motivating me to generate new ideas for the future. Wherever this exhibition will be presented, there will definitely be performances. Also, I hope that this work can be exhibited abroad and the Chinese musicians will form new dialogues with local artists and generate new ideas. Still, I don’t know how my work will continue in the future.

艺讯网：理解和洞察力对艺术来说是最重要的，作为跨界跨文化的艺术家和资深策展人，您又有哪些给青年艺术家的建议？

CAFA ART INFO: Sentiment and insight are the most important elements for art, as a cross-border and cross-cultural artist and experienced curator, how do you interpret the development of contemporary art in China? Would you like to offer some suggestions to young artists?

秦思源先生：中国有句话“知己知彼”，很多艺术家首先是知彼，他们还没有开始去知己，这两方面应该要同时进行，要不然艺术家做的艺术跟自己没有关系，没有自己的生命力。仅仅模仿也好，在时代中漂浮也好，但是所有的艺术必须立足于自己。

Mr. Colin Siyuan Chinnery: There’s a saying in China that “know thyself and know your enemy”, many artists first learn about others, i.e. other artists, the system, etc., but they have not begun to know themselves. Both of the aspects should be carried out simultaneously. Otherwise, the art that an artist creates has nothing to do with himself and therefore can’t develop any true relevance. Whether it is an imitation or flirting with the zeitgeist, all art must stem from the artist.

除特殊标注外，图片由艺术家本人提供,致谢艺术家和相关机构。

Photo Courtesy of the Artist and Related Organizations. (Except for special note.)

注：本文仅代表受访者本人观点，不代表中央美术学院艺术资讯网机构立场。

Note: The views and opinions expressed in this interview are those of the interviewee and do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of CAFA ART INFO and its employees.

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