Bloomberg专访马云：孤独是一家伟大公司诞生的前奏（附视频）

英语演讲君按

昨天（9月14日），美国知名财经媒体Bloomberg专访了阿里巴巴创始人兼董事局主席马云，他就阿里巴巴如何去应对来自竞争对手、来自各方面挑战等问题作出了回答。

在访谈中，马云谈到了阿里现阶段非常重要的一个战略转型，由轻资产策略转向重资产策略。 马云说， “我认为，在公司创办之初，规模还小时，轻资产策略是正确的。当公司规模足够大、业务足够强时，就需要转向重资产策略。不存在重资产好还是轻资产好的问题，混合策略才是好的。为了提高效率，我们需要把轻资产和重资产策略融合在一起。但是，以阿里巴巴目前的规模，一味抵制重资产策略是不对的。我们必须采用重资产策略，因为我们在打造基础设施，我们必须投资。”

同时，他还表示，“就像是爬山，在爬到1000米高时，我们的感觉很好，爬到4000米高时，就感觉到空气不够用了，周围的同伴也少了，你甚至不知道该与谁分享自己的想法和担忧。我们目前的状态相当于已经爬到5000或6000米的高度，因此我们很孤独。”

https://v.qq.com/txp/iframe/player.html?vid=q0550mwyt4z&width=500&height=375&auto=0

Bloomberg 专访马云、张勇和蔡崇信

After conquering grocery deliveries, Alibaba Group Holding Ltd. is setting its sights on a new part of China’s $4 trillion retail sector: department stores.

The e-commerce giant, which is also venturing into cloud computing and entertainment, is increasingly looking at traditional brick-and-mortar businesses, Chairman Jack Ma, Vice Chairman Joseph Tsai and Chief Executive Officer Daniel Zhang said in interviews with Bloomberg News on the company’s 18th anniversary. Alibaba, started in Ma’s apartment in 1999, is worth $458 billion today.

The executives, speaking less than a month after Amazon.com Inc. closed its $13.7 billion acquisition of Whole Foods Market Inc., discussed Alibaba’s strategy for dealing with competition, its vision on data and challenges the company will face. Ma said Alibaba will need to embrace a different mindset given its current size, and move away from its asset-light approach to grab a bigger share of global trade. 

“I think when you are young, tiny, a light model is good. When you are strong, big -- think about it -- you need heavy things. There is no heavy is good, or light is good -- a mix is good. To be efficient, you need to connect light and heavy models together. But with Alibaba’s size today, you should not leave the heavy model to others, it’s something you have to do because the infrastructure you are building up, you have to invest,” Ma said.

“It’s just like when you are climbing a mountain, when you are only 1,000 meters high, you enjoy it. It’s fine. Below 100 meters, you think everything is fine but when it gets to 4,000 meters, you don’t have enough air. You don’t have a lot of people working with you, and you don’t even know who to share your thoughts and worries with. And now we are probably like 5,000 or 6,000 meters high, so we get lonely,” he said.

Alibaba is also increasingly finding itself in competition withTencent Holdings Ltd. over payments, cloud computing and financial services. Tencent Chairman Pony Ma (not a relation) and Jack Ma both aspire to expand beyond China. Alibaba is also battling Amazon as it seeks growth in Southeast Asia, with e-commerce in Indonesia alone projected to reach $65 billion by 2020 from $8 billion now, according to a report by Macquarie Research.

“I think even Pony does not have the same experience of globalization as us. So for everybody, it’s new. For Amazon, I think e-commerce only started like 20 to 25 years ago, so nobody is an expert, especially when doing businesses in other nations. We are new. The competition that you should worry about is going to be in local areas,” Ma said.

“I’ve been saying this again and again internally. Alibaba going outside China is not about globalizing Alibaba. We are globalizing e-commerce infrastructure. We are trying to build the infrastructure of online payments. We are trying to build an infrastructure of logistics, and we are trying to build an infrastructure of cloud computing,” Ma said.

“We are going there so that, say they need the payment system, logistic system, they need the platform system. Now they can sell things globally. We are interested in the cross-border trading and e-commerce. I don’t think Tencent can do that. Because we’ve been doing this for 15 years. They will probably be good on the payments, especially if you are using WeChat, which the Chinese people are using. But when you go to India, Indian people don’t use WeChat, they probably cannot do a lot,” he said.

Data is Oil

With China’s tighter cyber security laws, technology companies face more challenges in the country. Alibaba is already China’s biggest cloud-computing provider, with the unit projected to make up 15 percent of Alibaba’s revenue by 2021, according to JPMorgan Chase & Co. 

“Nine years ago, when Alibaba shifted its position from an e-commerce company to a data company, we had a huge fight internally and finally decided that we were shifting. So we haven’t called ourselves an e-commerce company internally for nine years,” Ma said.

“I don’t know how we can make money out of data. Data is so important for human development in society. It’s gonna be as precious as oil in the last century. So we have to work that out,” he said.

China’s Government

Ma has spent years cultivating his image as a rebel fighting the system and knocking down walls protecting state-owned enterprises. He’s offered to “stir things up” for big banks, with Alipay introducing a money-market fund that siphoned away bank deposits. Ma has said his policy for dealing with the government is to fall in love, but not to marry.

“When you enter new fields without clear regulations, it is always a painful thing. They say, hey, my job is to regulate, not innovate, that’s your job. We have had terrible experiences, but we’ve learned how to work with regulators,” Ma said.

“We are pushing that (reform in state-run enterprises) and this is why a lot of banks don’t like us in China. We are not necessarily interested in buying a bank to change it, but because we have been chasing them around, they reformed. When a tiger follows you, you can run much faster than you thought,” he said.

Alibaba is further along than Amazon and other rivals in the grocery shopping experience with its Hema stores. They’re one-stop shops where users can pay with their mobile app, get recommendations by scanning product bar codes, and have seafood cooked on the spot. Hema stores also serve as last-mile delivery fulfillment centers, where goods get to buyers within 30 minutes. Vice Chairman Tsai said Alibaba aims to adopt a similar model for shopping malls.

“Every time you buy something online through a Hema store, it’ll get delivered in 30 minutes. That requires a different kind of logistics architecture. The footprint of where you keep the inventory, and all that has to be different from the current architecture.” Tsai said.

“In the mall context, you have similar ideas where the mall location should be able to serve both an in-store type of use case, but also if you don’t feel like going to the mall, you can order and if the mall is located near your home, we can deliver the items to your home. The mall type of thing will cover a lot more categories, a lot more products. It’ll be consumer staples, it’ll be apparel, it’ll be consumer electronics. We’re hoping to expand through the mall effort, into more categories,” he said.

“We don’t necessarily have to own these stores. We did make an acquisition of theIntime department store, in order to create an example, or a prototype of what an online-offline department store will look like. But I don’t think it’s a good use of capital to continue to buy a lot of real-estate heavy type of assets. I think we will continue to look at partnership approaches,” Tsai said.

CEO Zhang said the idea of converting stores nearby into fulfillment centers is what will enable 1 billion packages generated via Alibaba’s platform to be delivered every day in the future.

“Today if you look at the volume of the packages generated from our platform, it is about 55 million a day and we strongly believe that this can go grow to 1 billion, some years later,” Zhang said.

“The size of the retail business in China is about 30 trillion yuan ($4.6 trillion). The question is, how do you redefine smarter package delivery? You don’t have to get the package and fly it from one warehouse to another city for a 200-kilometers delivery. You can deliver from the store nearby. It still creates a lot of new packages shipped, but very conveniently. So, today, all these logistics systems should be integrated into the commerce system,” he said.

此前不到一个月，亚马逊公司斥资137亿美元收购了美国全食，几位高管们讨论了阿里巴巴应对竞争的策略、大数据业务的愿景以及公司将面临的挑战。马云说，考虑到目前的规模，阿里巴巴需要接受不同的思维方式，不再采取轻资产方式，而要在全球贸易中占据更大的份额。

“我认为当你年龄尚幼时，轻装上阵是好的。当你强壮高大时——想想看——你需要重的东西。不是说重的好或是轻的好，两者结合才好。要提高效率，必须轻重结合。但以阿里巴巴今天的规模，不应该把重的模式留给别人，这是你必须做的事情，因为你是在建设基础设施，必须投资。

就像爬一座山，当你站在1000米高处，你会感到很惬意。不错。低于100米，你感觉良好，但爬到4000米，你就会缺氧。没有很多人和你站在一起，你甚至不知道和谁分享你的想法和忧虑。现在我们大概如同站在5000或6000米高，所以我们感到孤独，”马云说。

瞄准腾讯

阿里巴巴也越来越发现自己正在与腾讯控股有限公司就支付、云计算和金融服务展开竞争。腾讯董事长马化腾和马云一样，都渴望在海外拓展业务。麦格理研究公司的一份报告称，为在东南亚寻求增长，阿里巴巴正与亚马逊竞争，仅在印度尼西亚一地，电子商务规模有望从目前的80亿美元增长至2020年的650亿美元。

“我认为马化腾的全球化经验不如我们。所以对每个人来说，这都是新事物。对亚马逊来说，我认为电子商务是从20-25年前才开始的，因此，没有人是专家，尤其是在其他国家做生意的时候。我们是新手。你应该担心的应该是当地的竞争。

我已经在公司内部说过一次又一次——阿里巴巴一旦走出去中国，就不再是全球化的阿里巴巴。我们是全球化的电子商务基础设施。我们正在努力建立在线支付的基础设施。我们正在努力建立物流基础设施，我们正在努力建设云计算基础设施。

我们去那里，说他们需要支付系统，物流系统，他们需要的平台系统。现在他们可以向全球销售。我们对跨境贸易和电子商务感兴趣。我不认为腾讯能做到这一点，因为我们已经做了15年。他们可能在支付上做的不错，特别是如果你使用微信，中国人都在用。但是，当你去印度时，印度人不使用微信，他们可能无能为力，”马云说。

数据是石油

随着中国加强网络安全立法，科技公司面临更多挑战。据摩根大通测算，阿里巴巴已经是中国最大的云计算提供商，2021年，云计算收入预计将占阿里巴巴收入的15%。

“九年前，当阿里巴巴从一家电子商务公司转化为数据公司时，我们内部争议很大，并最终决定转型。因此，九年来，我们不再称自己为一家电子商务公司。

　我不知道怎么才能从数据中赚钱。数据对于人类社会的发展是非常重要的，就像上个世纪的石油一样珍贵。所以我们必须解决这个问题，”马云说。

改造商场

借助盒马鲜生超市，阿里巴巴在零售购物体验上一直比亚马逊和其他竞争对手走得更快。他们推行一站式商店，用户可以通过手机应用程序付费，通过扫描产品条形码获得建议，并在现场烹制海鲜。盒马鲜生也是实现最后一公里配送的物流中心，货物在30分钟内送交买家。阿里巴巴执行副总裁蔡崇信说，阿里巴巴的目标是在采用类似模式建设购物中心。

“每次你通过盒马鲜生在线购买东西，它都会在30分钟内送到。这需要一种不同的物流体系。你必须保留库存，一切都迥异于当前架构。

这就好比一家商场，你既希望它是一处仓储型商场，又希望在不想购物时，能够在家附近的商场订购，我们可以将商品送货上门。此类商场涵盖更多类别，更多产品，将涵盖消费品、服装、消费电子产品。我们希望通过购物中心不断扩大商品种类。

我们不一定要拥有这些商店。我们收购了银泰百货，目的是提供一个实例，或一个样本，让大家看看线上线下百货是什么样子。但我认为利用资本继续购买大量房地产之类的重资产是不明智的。我认为我们将继续关注建立伙伴关系，”蔡崇信说。

最后一公里配送

阿里巴巴首席执行官张勇说，将附近门店转变为交付中心，这一设想将在未来使阿里巴巴平台每天生成的10亿个包裹完成配送。

“今天，如果你看看我们平台产生的包的数量，每天大约5500万，我们坚信几年后可以增长到10亿个。

中国零售业的规模约为30万亿人民币（约合4.6万亿美元）。问题是，如何为更智能化的包裹传递重新定义？你不必为了配送包裹而从一个仓库飞到200公里外的另一个城市，你可以从附近商店发货。同时，它也接收了许多新的包裹，非常方便。所以今天，所有这些物流系统都应该被整合到商业系统中，”张勇说。

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