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    尽管英国尚未正式加入“一带一路”倡议,但英国各界对这项倡议兴趣日浓。当前的”脱欧“前景,可能为英国在“一带一路”建设中提供一个新的角色。

    Although the United Kingdom (UK) has not formally joined the Belt and Road Initiative (BRI), it did not conceal its interest in closer cooperation with China on the initiative. The prospect of leaving the EU may provide the UK a new role in the BRI.

    China Focus以“一带一路”为主题,推出一系列海外知名人物高端访谈,今天推出对英国财政部“一带一路”金融和专业服务特使、前汇丰银行集团主席范智廉的专访。那么,他如何看待一带一路”与英国之间的投资项目?英国在“一带一路”建设中扮演了哪种角色?

    With the theme of Belt and Road construction, China Focus is set to launch a series of high-profile overseas interviews. Today we have an exclusive interview with Douglas Flint, BRI Financial and Professional Services Envoy for HM Treasury, UK, Former Group Chairman of HSBC. How does he view some case projects of the investments related to the BRI in the UK? What kind of role does the UK play in the Belt and Road construction?

    访谈对象:范智廉,英国财政部“一带一路”金融和专业服务特使,前汇丰银行集团主席

    访谈人员:薛力,中国社会科学院世界经济与政治研究所研究员

    地点:伦敦某咖啡厅


    Interviewee: Douglas Flint, BRI Financial and Professional Services Envoy for HM Treasury, UK, Former Group Chairman of HSBC. His comments were provided in a personal capacity

    Interviewer: Xue Li, research fellow at the Institute of World Economics and Politics under the Chinese Academy of Social Sciences

    Location: A Coffee House in London


    China Focus: 在您看来,中国提出“一带一路”倡议的主要原因是什么?

    China Focus: Why do you think China proposed the BRI?


    范智廉:过去六年里,“一带一路”倡议通过创造贸易和经济发展机会,成功吸引了一批国家向中国靠拢,其在协助建立贸易联系、促进经济发展和分享发展成果等方面作出越来越多的贡献。

    Douglas Flint:Over the last six years, the BRI has evolved into a much broader initiative to build trade links, promote economic growth, and share economic prosperity through effectively creating a group of nations allied through trade and economic opportunities.

    众多国家的积极参与,让“一带一路”的概念比古老的“丝绸之路”更为宽泛。中国为世界的和谐发展提供了一种新的愿景——世界需要大规模的基础设施投资,以容纳接下来20年中即将到来的大量人口。

    This concept is now much broader than recreating the original Silk Road in terms of the number of countries involved. I think China has created a vision of the world where, to deliver harmonious growth, the world needs to invest massively in infrastructure to ensure that the population growth that is projected to take place over the next 20 years can be accommodated in a way that is manageable.

    最重要的是,“一带一路”让我们认识到,世界增长需要基础设施,若以一种不可持续的方式建设基础设施,将给世界带来巨大成本。将给世界带来巨大成本。

    On top of that, I think it is also a recognition that if the world growth needed infrastructure particularly in an unsustainable way, the cost to the whole world will be huge.

    构建可持续的经济与贸易联系是“一带一路”建设的核心。

    Delivering sustainable economic and trade links is the essence of the BRI.


    China Focus: 您如何评价“一带一路”倡议?

    China Focus: How do you evaluate the BRI?


    范智廉:“一带一路”的优势之一,是可以为共建国家创造经济增长;如果没有”一带一路“带来的其他国家的支持,它们无法在相同时间内取得这种成绩。在这一点上,中国通过加速东道国的基础设施建设来提高其人民福祉,创造就业增长,为这些国家的自身发展带来大量利好。

    Douglas Flint:There is a clear advantage in creating economic growth in countries that would not be able to achieve that growth in the same time frame without the additional support from other countries available through the BRI. If countries like China are prepared to accelerate infrastructure development that enables the recipient economy to add to the prosperity of its citizens and create employment growth, there are demonstrable benefits.

    “一带一路”将创造出更大的全球经济体,提供更多的贸易机会,降低地缘政治带来的风险。因为无法养活自己居民的国家会减少。同时,由于人们不再需要为生计而四处奔波,经济移民的数量也将随之降低。

    In aggregate this should create a greater global economy, develop more trade opportunities, and reduce the risk of geopolitical tension because there will be fewer states that cannot support their own communities; this benefit will also reduce the possibility of unsustainable economic migration as people will no longer need to move to seek employment.

    “一带一路”倡议也将在《巴黎协定》框架下推进绿色议程的贯彻实施,为降低世界碳排放作出突出贡献。

    The sustainable execution of the BRI will enhance the green agenda in terms of the Paris Protocol, contributing towards a lower carbon-intense world.

    很明显,中国在承担大国责任。中国越来越多地加入到多边和超国家机构,在重要国际事务中负起更多责任。习近平主席曾经在世界经济论坛的演讲中强调全球化的益处,这就是最好的证明。

    China is shouldering its responsibility as a major country. Through increasing its involvement in multilateral and super-national bodies, China has a significant role to play in terms of taking more responsibility for many things that are important for the world. President Xi's speech at the World Economic Forum about the benefits of globalization is evidence of this.

    当今中国正在引领全球化的进程,这在20年前完全无法想象。中国通过“一带一路”证明自己愿意通过推动贸易和投资增长来促进其他国家的繁荣。中国主张分享繁荣,并确保参与其中的国家能够共同获得经济收益。这一切做法符合我们每个人的利益。

    China today is taking the lead in promoting globalization, a position that would have been difficult to imagine 20 years ago. So the BRI is evidence that China is willing to take responsibility and contribute to the prosperity of other countries through promoting trade and investment growth. The BRI is also evidence of China's stated objective to share prosperity and make sure countries that are behind it economically get help to grow, which is in everybody's best interest.


    China Focus: 您怎么看“一带一路”与英国之间的投资项目?

    China Focus: How do you view some case projects of the investments related to the BRI in the UK?


    范智廉:  在我看来,英国将为“一带一路”的成功实施作出重大贡献。我们从中欧班列中受益良多,其中有线路终点在英国,但很多项目并没有在英国实施。目前,大多数正在商议的项目都是在东欧、南亚和非洲这些急需基础设施的地方。

    Douglas Flint:I think the UK can be a major contributor to the success of the BRI but I don’t think many of the projects will end up here although we benefit from the railway links that go from China all the way to Europe, which are in the UK. Most of the projects that are being specified will not take place in the UK but in Eastern Europe, South Asia, and in Africa where the infrastructure is most needed.

    ▲  2019年4月,负责高铁二号线建设的英国国有企业首席执行官马克⋅瑟斯顿飞往北京,和5家中国国有铁路公司代表进行了会谈。

    Mark Thurston, the executive director of the British state-owned enterprise responsible for High Speed Two(HS2), flew to Beijing for talks with representatives of five Chinese state-owned railway companies in April 2019.


    (薛:英国似乎在“一带一路”问题上比其他欧洲国家更积极。)

    (Xue: It seems that the UK is more positive towards the BRI than other European countries.)

    我认为这得益于我们的历史传统。在经商方面,英国始终具有全球视野。伦敦金融城与英国的法律框架都是为促进国际贸易和投资而设计的。伦敦一直在国际项目吸引全球投资过程中扮演着重要角色。

    I think that this is connected with our history. The UK has always had an international outlook through business. The city of London and our legal framework are designed to support international trade and investment. London has always played a major role in attracting international money for international projects. 

    无论过去还是现在,英国和世界上大多数国家都保持着这样那样的联系。在我们的历史上,无论是作为英联邦国家还是过去的大英帝国,英国都以贸易为纽带与世界上大多数国家保持联系,这展示了我们旨在连接不同国家和促进贸易的冒险精神。

    The UK has historic and current connections to most of the countries in the world, one way or the other. During the course of our history, as a commonwealth country and way back into the British Empire where Britain was connected by trade to most countries in the world, there has always been a spirit of adventure directed towards connecting countries and promoting trade.

    如果看一下英国政治领袖的声明,就会发现他们都在强调——不列颠是作为“全球的不列颠”而前行的。

    If you look at the statements of our political leaders, they emphasize that Britain is going forward as "global Britain".


    China Focus: 您认为英国在“一带一路”建设中扮演了哪种角色?

    China Focus: What kind of role does the UK play in the Belt and Road construction?


    范智廉: 中国建造的基础设施总量已超过其他国家的总和。英国在“一带一路”中的机遇与贡献在于我所说的“构建能力”方面。全世界基础设施建设所需资金数额庞大,中国很难凭一己之力做到全部覆盖。

    Douglas Flint:China has built more infrastructure than the rest of the world put together. The way I describe the UK's opportunity and its contribution is to "build capacity". The amount of money needed to be spent on infrastructure development around the world is beyond even China's ability to do so on its own.

    伦敦金融城的传统优势是从世界各地吸引资金、展示项目的可行性、确保适当的治理、提供可信的争端解决机制,以及通过法治、特定领域专家和审计等来确保合同的透明度等等。这些基本涵盖了国际社会所关注的项目实施的方方面面。

    The UK's traditional skills in the city of London, such as gathering money from all over the world, demonstrating project viability, ensuring proper governance, providing a trusted mechanism for dispute resolution, offering clarity of contract through rule of law, fielding experts, auditing, and so on, are essentially the complete picture of what makes projects attractive to an international community.

    投资者们希望他们唯一需要评估的只是项目本身,不必承担无法获取信息或解决合同纠纷等风险。如今,英国金融业和专业服务业在向全世界提供服务的时候,都尽量做到明晰管理。

    Investors want to know that the only thing they have to evaluate is the project itself and not the risk of failing to get the information they need nor how to resolve contractual disputes. That governance clarity is what the UK's financial and professional service industries do today all over the world.


    英国与中国的合作为“一带一路”建设创造了更多的融资机会。

    The UK working together with China creates the opportunity to build more financial capacity for the BRI than would otherwise be the case.

    英国是唯一一个设立专职特使的国家。我们的目标是与中国合作,设计出融资与治理标准的框架,以提高“一带一路”的国际融资能力。最终检验”一带一路”成功与否的标准是,看它是否为那些原本不可能实现的基础设施建设提供了发展条件,并加快了其发展速度。

    Britain is the only country with a dedicated envoy role. In terms of what we are trying to achieve it is, along with China, to create a framework of financing and governance standards to promote international financing capacity for the BRI. The ultimate test of success will be whether the BRI has enabled infrastructure development around the world to be done that would not otherwise have been possible, or was done faster than it would otherwise have been.

    英国前首相特蕾莎·梅于2018年1月访华时清楚表态:英国渴望加强与中国的经济和贸易关系, 积极支持“一带一路”相关的经济与商业倡议。我认为她的访问非常成功。

    I think former Prime Minister Theresa May was very clear on her trip to China in January, 2018 that the UK is keen to build its economic and trade relationships with China and is keen to support the economic and commercial initiatives of the BRI. I think her visit went very well.


    China Focus: 在您看来,“一带一路”对中国的国家形象有哪些影响?

    China Focus: What do you think of the changes in China's national image since the launch of the BRI?


    范智廉:人们支持“一带一路”,是因为他们认为,“一带一路”通过世界范围内的基础设施建设,促进了贸易联系,推动了经济增长,分享了发展成果,中国兑现了当初既定的目标。

    Douglas Flint:People support the BRI because they believe it is designed to meet its stated objective in terms of promoting trade links, economic growth, and shared prosperity through infrastructure development throughout the world.

    在我看来,中国和世界都将从中获得实实在在的利益。这股将持续20年的基础设施建设潮流,有助于解决人口增长问题以及帮助一些贫弱国家面对社会和经济挑战。

    From my perspective, I can see the genuine benefit, both to China and globally, from a major infrastructure push over the next 20 years to cope with demographic population growth and to cope with the social and economic challenges in the weakest countries.

    中国必须意识到,肯定会有人质疑:这是否是中国的全部动机?实实在在的行动是消除这一疑虑的唯一手段。这意味着要确保项目设计良好,经济上可行,并符合可接受的国际标准。只有这样,人们才会相信这些项目有助于共建国家的经济发展。

    I think China has to recognize that there will be those who question whether that's the entirety of their motivation. But the only way to address that is through actions. That means making sure the projects are well designed, economically viable, and meet acceptable international standards. In this way people can see evidence that these projects have contributed to the participating countries.


    China Focus:习近平主席将“一带一路”称为“世纪工程”,这意味着需要推进“一带一路”的可持续发展,在您看来,在“一带一路”建设的可持续性方面有什么问题?该如何解决? 

    China Focus: President Xi Jinping referred to the BRI as a "Century Project", which means that it is necessary to promote the sustainable development of the initiative. In your opinion, what is the problem in the sustainability of the Belt and Road construction? How can it be addressed?


    范智廉: 全球对基础设施的需求源源不断。我们可以将目光放在100年之后,但更有必要去关注从现在到2050年这段时间。未来30年,人们需要在充分保护环境的前提下,以一种可持续的方式容纳新出生的大量人口。因此,全球对基础设施的需求将迅速上升。

    Douglas Flint:The need for global infrastructure never ends. So a hundred years is not beyond comprehension. But I think there are more reasons to talk about the period between now and 2050. For the next 30 years, the world has a dramatic need to build economic infrastructure to allow population growth to take place safely and in a sustainable way in terms of the environment.

    “一带一路”能否取得成功,并不在于那些国家能否支付建成的基础设施费用,而在于由基础设施形成的经济生态系统所产生的经济效益是否更有价值。

    Whether the BRI will succeed is not a matter of whether the countries can afford to pay for the infrastructure that has been built, but whether the economic value of the economic ecosystem generated by the infrastructure is more valuable.

    “一带一路”倡议需要变得更加公开透明。至今仍有很多国家不理解“一带一路”的内涵,有很多国家对中国的看法停留在20年前。很多人在时隔一段时间后再去中国,往往对这里的摩登都市、高铁和轨道交通高速发展以及庞大的发展规模深感震惊。他们现在看到的中国是一个充满活力的经济体。总之,中国有太多的东西需要西方去进一步了解。

    The BRI needs to improve its transparency. There continues to be a lack of understanding in many countries surrounding the BRI. There are still attitudes towards China that are 20 years out of date. You know, many people are astounded when they go to China, when they haven’t been there for a while, when they go to the major cities, they see the progress of high-speed train rail networks and the sheer scale of development that has taken place. They see a vibrant economy. All in all, China has many things that those in the West need to develop a better understanding towards.


    【高端访谈】 凯利·布朗:“一带一路”让我们更好地了解中国

    【高端访谈】 郑永年:“一带一路”基础设施建设应与民生经济更好结合

    【高端访谈】 约瑟夫·奈:不要用“战略对手”来定义中美关系

    【高端访谈】 包天民: “一带一路” 为一些国家提供了新的发展模式

    【高端访谈】李熙玉:中国应与“一带一路”共建国家进一步探索新型发展模式

    【高端访谈】西瓦格·达马·内加拉:中国和印尼可考虑对接“一带一路”和“全球海洋支点”

    【高端访谈】罗世礼:“一带一路”倡议将为可持续发展提供机会

    【高端访谈】东京大学教授:日本是如何逐步接受“一带一路”倡议的

    【高端访谈】巴黎和平论坛总干事:“一带一路”能够增强互联互通和推动发展

    【高端访谈】王景荣: “一带一路”倡议使中国在全球舞台上更加活跃

    【高端访谈】郑载兴:推进“一带一路“建设,须处理好与美国的竞争



    编辑 / 蔡海若

    Editor /  Cai Hairuo

    图片 / 网络

    美编 / 高铭

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