TED演讲：世界为什么需要维基解密?（附视频&演讲稿）
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当地时间4月11日，维基解密创始人朱利安·阿桑奇（Julian Assange）在位于伦敦市中心的厄瓜多尔驻英国大使馆被逮捕。警方称，此次逮捕行动是“接到厄瓜多尔驻英国大使邀请而进行，厄瓜多尔政府已经放弃对阿桑奇的政治庇护”。目前尚不明确阿桑奇将面临何种指控，是否引渡也待定。阿桑奇于2006年创建维基解密网站，2010年公布了大量美国政府关于阿富汗和伊拉克战争的机密文件，在全球引起巨大轰动和争议。
2013年，阿桑奇向TED主持人Chris Anderson讲述了该网站的建立和成就——以及他的动机。该采访包含近期美国在巴格达的空袭镜头。
Chris Anderson: Julian, welcome. It's been reported that WikiLeaks, your baby, has, in the last few years has released more classified documents than the rest of the world's media combined. Can that possibly be true?
克里斯·安德森：朱利安，欢迎。据报道，维基解密，你的孩子，在过去的几年里已经发布了比世界其他媒体联合的更多的机密文件。这可能是真的吗？
Julian Assange: Yeah, can it possibly be true? It's a worry -- isn't it? -- that the rest of the world's media is doing such a bad job that a little group of activists is able to release more of that type of information than the rest of the world press combined.
朱利安阿桑奇：是的，这可能是真的吗？这是一个担忧，不是吗？--世界其他媒体正在做这样一个糟糕的工作，一小部分积极分子能够释放出比其他人更多的信息。世界新闻联合会。
CA: How does it work? How do people release the documents? And how do you secure their privacy?
CA:它是如何工作的？人们是如何释放这些文件的？你如何保证他们的隐私？
JA:So these areas far as we can tell classical whistleblowers, and we have a number of ways for them to get information to us. So we use this state of theart encryption to bounce stuff around the Internet, to hide trails, pass it through legal jurisdictions like Sweden and Belgium to enact those legal protections. We get information in the mail, the regular postal mail, encrypted or not, vet it like a regular news organization, format it -- which is sometimes something that's quite hard to do, when you're talking about giant databases of information -- release it to the public and then defend ourselves against the inevitable legal and political attacks.
JA:那么这些就是我们可以说的，经典的告密者，我们有很多方法可以让他们得到信息。因此，我们使用这种最先进的加密技术，在互联网上弹起东西，隐藏踪迹，通过像瑞典和比利时这样的法律管辖区来实施这些法律保护。我们在邮件中得到信息，普通的邮件，加密的或不加密的，像正规的新闻机构一样审查它，格式化它有时是很难做的事情，当你在谈论巨大的信息数据库的时候，把它发布给公众，然后保护自己免受不可避免的法律和政治攻击。
CA: So you make an effort to ensure the documents are legitimate, but you actually almost never know who the identity of the source is?
CA:所以你努力确保文件是合法的，但你实际上几乎不知道谁是源代码的身份？
JA: That's right, yeah. Very rarely do we ever know, and if we find out at some stage then we destroy that information as soon as possible. (Phone ring) God damn it.
JA:是的，是的。我们很少知道，如果我们在某个阶段发现，我们会尽快销毁这些信息。（电话铃声）该死的。
CA: I think that's the CIA asking what the code is for a TED membership.
CA:我想这就是CIA询问TED成员的代码是什么。
(Laughter)
（笑声）
So let's take [an] example, actually. This is something you leaked a few years ago. If we can have this document up ... So this was a story in Kenya a few years ago. Can you tell us what you leaked and what happened?
让我们来举个例子。这是几年前你泄漏的东西。如果我们能把这个文件...这是几年前在肯尼亚的一个故事。你能告诉我们你泄露了什么吗？
JA: So this is the Kroll Report. This was a secret intelligence report commissioned by the Kenyan government after its election in 2004. Prior to 2004, Kenya was ruled by Daniel arap Moi for about 18 years. He was a soft dictator of Kenya. And when Kibaki got into power -- through a coalition of forces that were trying to clean up corruption in Kenya -- they commissioned this report, spent about two million pounds on this and an associated report. And then the government sat on it and used it for political leverage on Moi, who was the richest man -- still is the richest man -- in Kenya. It's the Holy Grail of Kenyan journalism. So I went there in 2007, and we managed to get hold of this just prior to the election -- the national election, December 28. When we released that report, we did so three days after the new president, Kibaki, had decided to pal up with the man that he was going to clean out, Daniel arap Moi, so this report then became a dead albatross around President Kibaki's neck.
JA:这就是Kroll报告。这是一份由肯尼亚政府在2004年选举后委托的秘密情报报告。2004年之前，肯尼亚被丹尼尔·阿拉普·莫伊统治了大约18年。他是肯尼亚的软独裁者。当齐贝吉开始执政时，通过一个试图清理肯尼亚腐败的力量联盟，他们委托撰写这份报告，花费了大约200万英镑，并提交了一份相关报告。然后，政府坐在上面，用它来政治上的影响力，莫伊是最富有的人，他仍然是肯尼亚最富有的人。这是肯尼亚新闻界的圣杯。所以我在2007年去了那里，在大选前我们设法取得了这一点——全国大选，12月28日。当我们发布这份报告的时候，新总统齐贝吉已经三天了，他决定和他要清理的那个人交朋友，丹尼尔·阿拉普·莫伊，所以这个报告在齐贝吉总统的周围变成了一个死的信天翁。脖子。
CA: And I mean, to cut a long story short word of the report leaked into Kenya, not from the official media, but indirectly, and in your opinion, it actually shifted the election. JA: Yeah. So this became front page of the Guardian and was then printed in all the surrounding countries of Kenya, in Tanzanian and South African press. And so it came in from the outside. And that, after a couple of days, made the Kenyan press feel safe to talk about it. And it ran for 20 nights straight on Kenyan TV, shifted the vote by 10 percent, according to a Kenyan intelligence report, which changed the result of the election.
CA:而且--我的意思是，要把一个长篇大论的短消息--这个报告的话泄漏到肯尼亚，不是来自官方媒体，而是间接的，在你看来，它实际上改变了选举。JA:是的。因此，这成为卫报的头版，然后在肯尼亚的所有周边国家，坦桑尼亚和南非的媒体上印刷。所以它是从外面进来的。几天后，肯尼亚的新闻界对此感到安全。根据肯尼亚的一份情报报告，该报告改变了选举结果，在肯尼亚的电视上连续播放了20个晚上，投票率为10%。
CA: Wow, so your leak really substantially changed the world?
CA:哇，你的泄密真的改变了世界吗？
JA: Yep.
JA:是的。
CA:Here's- We're going to just show a short clip from this Baghdad airstrike video. The video itself is longer, but here's a short clip. This is this is intense material, I should warn you.
CA:这里是--我们将从这个巴格达的空袭录像中展示一个短片。视频本身较长，但这里有一个短片。这是--这是强烈的材料，我应该警告你。
Radio: ... just fuckin', once you get on 'em just open 'em up. I see your element, uh, got about four Humvees, uh, out along ... You're clear. All right. Firing. Let me know when you've got them. Let's shoot. Light 'em all up. C'mon, fire! (Machine gun fire) Keep shoot 'n. Keep shoot 'n. (Machine gun fire) Keep shoot 'n. Hotel ... Bushmaster Two-Six, Bushmaster Two-Six, we need to move, time now! All right, we just engaged all eight individuals. Yeah, we see two birds [helicopters], and we're still firing. Roger. I got 'em. Two-Six, this is Two-Six, we're mobile. Oops, I'm sorry. What was going on? God damn it, Kyle. All right, hahaha. I hit 'em.
收音机：…他妈的，你一上车就把他们打开我看到你的元素，嗯，有四个悍马，嗯，在外面…你很清楚。好的。射击。等你找到了就告诉我。我们开枪吧。把它们全部都亮起来。开火！（机枪火力）继续射击。保持射击（机枪火力）继续射击。酒店…bushmaster二六，bushmaster二六，我们需要移动，时间现在！好吧，我们刚刚和八个人订婚了。是的，我们看到两只鸟[直升机]，而且我们还在开火。明白了。我得到了。二六，这是二六，我们是移动的。哎呀，对不起。发生了什么事？该死的，凯尔好的，哈哈。我打了。
CA: So, what was the impact of that?
CA:那么，那有什么影响呢？
JA: The impact on the people who worked on it was severe. We ended up sending two people to Baghdad to further research that story. So this is just the first of three attacks that occurred in that scene.
JA:对工作人员的影响是很严重的。我们最后派了两个人去巴格达进一步研究这个故事。所以这只是发生在那一幕的三次攻击中的第一次。
CA: So, I mean, 11 people died in that attack, right, including two Reuters employees?
CA:那么，我是说，有11人在那次袭击中丧生，对吗，包括两名路透社雇员？
JA: Yeah. Two Reuters employees, two young children were wounded. There were between 18 and 26 people killed all together.
JA:是的。两名路透社雇员，两名年幼的儿童受伤。一共有18到26人死亡。
CA: And releasing this caused widespread outrage. What was the key element of this that actually caused the outrage, do you think?
CA:释放这件事引起了广泛的愤慨。你认为这件事的关键因素是什么？
JA: I don't know. I guess people can see the gross disparity in force. You have guys walking in a relaxed way down the street, and then an Apache helicopter sitting up at one kilometer firing 30-millimeter cannon shells on everyone -- looking for any excuse to do so -- and killing people rescuing the wounded. And there was two journalists involved that clearly weren't insurgents because that's their full-time job.
我不知道。我想人们可以看到力量的巨大差距。你们有人在街上悠闲地走着，然后，一架阿帕奇直升机在一公里处坐着，向每个人发射30毫米口径的炮弹，寻找任何这样做的借口，并杀死救援伤员的人。有两名记者参与，显然不是叛乱分子，因为这是他们的全职工作。
CA: I mean, there's been this U.S. intelligence analyst, Bradley Manning, arrested, and it's alleged that he confessed in a chat room to have leaked this video to you, along with 280,000 classified U.S. embassy cables. I mean, did he?
CA:我的意思是，有一位美国情报分析员布拉德利·曼宁被捕，据称他在一个聊天室里承认把这段视频泄露给了你，还有28万份美国大使馆的机密电报。我是说，是吗？
JA: We have denied receiving those cables. He has been charged, about five days ago, with obtaining 150,000 cables and releasing 50. Now, we had released, early in the year, a cable from the Reykjavik U.S. embassy, but this is not necessarily connected. I mean, I was a known visitor of that embassy.
JA:我们拒绝接受这些电报。他已被指控，大约5天前，获得15万电缆和释放50。现在，我们已经在年初发布了来自雷克雅未克美国大使馆的电报，但这并不一定是联系在一起的。我是说，我是那个大使馆的访客。
CA: I mean, if you did receive thousands of U.S. embassy diplomatic cables ...
CA:我的意思是，如果你收到了数以千计的美国大使馆外交电报…
JA: We would have released them. (CA: You would?)
JA:我们会把它们放出来的。（你会吗？）
JA: Yeah. (CA: Because?)
是的。（CA:因为？）
JA: Well, because these sort of things reveal what the true state of, say, Arab governments are like, the true human-rights abuses in those governments. If you look at declassified cables, that's the sort of material that's there.
JA:嗯，因为这类事情揭示了阿拉伯政府的真实状况，比如说，那些政府中真正的侵犯人权的行为。如果你看看解密的电缆，那就是那里的材料。
CA: So let's talk a little more broadly about this. I mean, in general, what's your philosophy? Why is it right to encourage leaking of secret information?
CA:让我们更广泛地谈谈这一点。我的意思是，一般来说，你的哲学是什么？为什么鼓励泄露秘密信息是正确的？
JA: Well, there's a question as to what sort of information is important in the world, what sort of information can achieve reform. And there's a lot of information. So information that organizations are spending economic effort into concealing, that's a really good signal that when the information gets out, there's a hope of it doing some good -- because the organizations that know it best, that know it from the inside out, are spending work to conceal it. And that's what we've found in practice, and that's what the history of journalism is.
JA:嗯，有一个问题是什么样的信息是重要的在世界上，什么样的信息可以实现改革。还有很多信息。因此，信息，组织正在花费经济的努力隐藏，这是一个非常好的信号，当信息出来，有希望它做一些好的-因为知道它最好的组织，从内而外了解它，都是为了掩盖它而埋单。这就是我们在实践中发现的，这就是新闻业的历史。
CA: But are there risks with that, either to the individuals concerned or indeed to society at large, where leaking can actually have an unintended consequence?
CA:但这是否有风险，无论是对个人，还是对整个社会来说，泄漏实际上会产生意想不到的后果？
JA: Not that we have seen with anything we have released. I mean, we have a harm immunization policy. We have a way of dealing with information that has sort of personal -- personally identifying information in it. But there are legitimate secrets -- you know, your records with your doctor; that's a legitimate secret -- but we deal with whistleblowers that are coming forward that are really sort of well-motivated.
JA:并不是说我们已经看到了我们发布的任何东西。我的意思是，我们有一个伤害免疫政策。我们有一种处理信息的方式，它有一种个人的个人识别信息。但是，有一些合法的秘密，你知道，你的记录与你的医生；这是一个合法的秘密-但我们对付告密者，是真正有点积极的。
CA: So they are wellmotivated. And what would you say to, for example, the, you know, the parent of someone whose son is out serving the U.S. military, and he says, "You know what, you've put up something that someone had an incentive to put out. It shows a U.S. soldier laughing at people dying. That gives the impression, has given the impression, to millions of people around the world that U.S. soldiers are inhuman people. Actually, they're not. My son isn't. How dare you?" What would you say to that?
CA:所以他们的动机很好。你会怎么说，比如说，你知道，一个儿子的父母在为美国军队服役，他说，“你知道吗，你已经提出了一些人有动机去解决的事情。它显示了一个美国士兵笑着死去的人。这给人的印象是，给全世界数百万人的印象是，美国士兵是不人道的人。事实上，他们不是。我儿子不是。你怎么敢？”你会怎么说？
JA: Yeah, we do get a lot of that. But remember, the people in Baghdad, the people in Iraq, the people in Afghanistan they don't need to see the video; they see it every day. So it's not going to change their opinion. It's not going to change their perception. That's what they see every day. It will change the perception and opinion of the people who are paying for it all, and that's our hope.
ja：是的，我们确实得到了很多。但是请记住，巴格达的人民，伊拉克的人民，阿富汗的人民，他们不需要看视频，他们每天都看到。所以这不会改变他们的看法。这不会改变他们的看法。这就是他们每天所看到的。这将改变人们的看法和看法，他们为这一切付出代价，这是我们的希望。
CA: So you found a way to shine light into what you see as these sort of dark secrets in companies and in government. Light is good. But do you see any irony in the fact that, in order for you to shine that light, you have to, yourself, create secrecy around your sources?
CA:所以你找到了一个方法来照亮你在公司和政府中看到的这些黑暗秘密。光是好的。但你是否看到任何讽刺的事实，为了让你的光芒，你必须，你自己，创造秘密围绕你的来源？
JA: Not really. I mean, we don't have any WikiLeaks dissidents yet. We don't have sources who are dissidents on other sources. Should they come forward, that would be a tricky situation for us, but we're presumably acting in such a way that people feel morally compelled to continue our mission, not to screw it up.
JA:没有。我的意思是，我们没有任何维基解密的异议者。我们没有其他来源的异议人士。如果他们挺身而出，那对我们来说将是一个棘手的情况，但我们可能采取这样一种方式，让人们感到道义上被迫继续我们的使命，而不是把它搞砸。
CA: I'd actually be interested, just based on what we've heard so far -- I'm curious as to the opinion in the TED audience. You know, there might be a couple of views of WikiLeaks and of Julian. You know, hero -- people's hero -- bringing this important light. Dangerous troublemaker. Who's got the hero view? Who's got the dangerous troublemaker view?
CA:我真的很感兴趣，只是根据我们所听到的，我很好奇TED观众的意见。你知道，维基解密和朱利安可能有两个观点。你知道，英雄——人们的英雄——带来了这一重要的光芒。危险的麻烦制造者。谁有英雄的观点？谁有危险的麻烦制造者的观点？
JA: Oh, come on. There must be some.
JA:哦，来吧。一定有。
CA: It's a soft crowd, Julian, a soft crowd. We have to try better. Let's show them another example. Now here's something that you haven't yet leaked, but I think for TED you are. I mean it's an intriguing story that's just happened, right? What is this?
CA:这是一个柔软的人群，朱利安，一个柔软的人群。我们得再努力一点。让我们给他们看另一个例子。现在这里有一些你还没有泄露的东西，但我想你是TED的。我的意思是这是一个有趣的故事发生了，对吗？这是什么？
JA: So this is a sample of what we do sort of every day. So late last year- in November last year- there was a series of well blowouts in Albania, like the well blowout in the Gulf of Mexico, but not quite as big. And we got a report- a sort of engineering analysis into what happened- saying that, in fact, security guards from some rival, various competing oil firms had, in fact, parked trucks there and blown them up. And part of the Albanian government was in this, etc., etc. And the engineering report had nothing on the top of it, so it was an extremely difficult document for us. We couldn't verify it because we didn't know who wrote it and knew what it was about. So we were kind of skeptical that maybe it was a competing oil firm just sort of playing the issue up. So under that basis, we put it out and said, "Look, we're skeptical about this thing. We don't know, but what can we do? The material looks good, it feels right, but we just can't verify it." And we then got a letter just this week from the company who wrote it, wanting to track down the source- (Laughter) saying, "Hey, we want to track down the source." And we were like, "Oh, tell us more. What document is it, precisely, you're talking about? Can you show that you had legal authority over that document? Is it really yours?" So they sent us this screen shot with the author in the Microsoft Word ID. Yeah. (Applause) That's happened quite a lot though. This is like one of our methods of identifying, of verifying, what a material is, is to try and get these guys to write letters.
JA:所以这是我们每天做的事情的样本。去年年底，去年11月，阿尔巴尼亚发生了一系列井喷，就像墨西哥湾的井喷，但并没有那么大。我们得到了一份报告——一种对发生的事情的工程分析——事实上，一些竞争对手的保安人员，事实上，在那里停着卡车，把他们炸飞了。阿尔巴尼亚政府的一部分是在这个，等等，等等。而工程报告没有任何内容，所以对我们来说这是一份非常困难的文件。我们无法证实这一点，因为我们不知道是谁写的，知道它是关于什么的。所以我们怀疑这可能是一家竞争激烈的石油公司，只是在玩这个问题。因此，在这个基础上，我们提出并说：“看，我们对这件事持怀疑态度。我们不知道，但我们能做什么呢？材料看起来不错，感觉不错，但我们就是无法证实。”然后我们得到了一个呃就在本周，从写这篇文章的公司里，想要追查源头——（笑声）说，“嘿，我们要追查源头。”我们就像，“哦，告诉我们更多。”你说的是什么文件？你能证明你对那份文件有法律上的权威吗？真的是你的吗？”所以他们给我们发送了这个屏幕截图与作者在Microsoft Word ID。是的。（掌声）虽然发生了很多。这就像我们的识别方法之一，验证，什么是材料，是试图让这些家伙写信。
CA: Yeah. Have you had information from inside BP?
CA:是的。你有来自英国石油公司的信息吗？
JA: Yeah, we have a lot, but I mean, at the moment, we are undergoing a sort of serious fundraising and engineering effort. So our publication rate over the past few months has been sort of minimized while we're re-engineering our back systems for the phenomenal public interest that we have. That's a problem. I mean, like any sort of growing startup organization, we are sort of overwhelmed by our growth, and that means we're getting enormous quantity of whistleblower disclosures of a very high caliber but don't have enough people to actually process and vet this information.
JA:是的，我们有很多，但我的意思是，目前，我们正在进行一种严肃的筹款和工程努力。因此，我们在过去几个月的出版率已经被最小化了，而我们正在重新设计我们的支持系统，以获得我们所拥有的惊人的公共利益。那是个问题。我的意思是，就像任何一个成长中的创业组织，我们都被自己的成长所淹没，这就意味着我们得到了大量的揭发者，他们披露了一个很高的口径，但却没有足够的人来处理和审查这些信息。
CA: So that's the key bottleneck, basically journalistic volunteers and/or the funding of journalistic salaries?
JA: Yep. Yeah, and trusted people. I mean, we're an organization that is hard to grow very quickly because of the sort of material we deal with, so we have to restructure in order to have people who will deal with the highest national security stuff, and then lower security cases.
JA:是的。是的，值得信赖的人我的意思是，我们是一个很难快速成长的组织，因为我们处理的材料种类很多，因此，我们必须进行重组，以便有人来处理最高的国家安全事务，然后降低安全案件。
CA: So help us understand a bit about you personally and how you came to do this. And I think I read that as a kid you went to 37 different schools. Can that be right?
CA:那么帮助我们了解一下你个人的情况，以及你是如何做到这一点的。我想我读到一个孩子，你去了37个不同的学校。那样对吗？
JA: Well, my parents were in the movie business and then on the run from a cult, so the combination between the two ...
JA:嗯，我的父母在电影业，然后从一个邪教组织，所以两者的结合…
CA: I mean, a psychologist might say that's a recipe for breeding paranoia.
CA:我的意思是，一个心理学家可能会说这是一种繁殖偏执狂的方法。
JA: What, the movie business?
JA:什么，电影业？
(Laughter)
（笑声）
(Applause)
（掌声）
CA: And you were also I mean, you were also a hacker at an early age and ran into the authorities early on. JA: Well, I was a journalist. You know, I was a very young journalist activist at an early age. I wrote a magazine, was prosecuted for it when I was a teenager. So you have to be careful with hacker. I mean there's like- there's a method that can be deployed for various things. Unfortunately, at the moment, it's mostly deployed by the Russian mafia in order to steal your grandmother's bank accounts. So this phrase is not, not as nice as it used to be.
CA:你也是--我的意思是，你很小的时候也是个黑客，很早就进入了政府部门。贾：嗯，我是一名记者。你知道，我从小就是一个很年轻的新闻活动家。我写了一本杂志，在我十几岁的时候就被起诉了。所以你要小心黑客。我的意思是，有一种方法可以用于各种各样的事情。不幸的是，目前，它主要是由俄罗斯黑手党部署，以窃取你祖母的银行帐户。所以这个短语不是，不像以前那么好了。
CA: Yeah, well, I certainly don't think you're stealing anyone's grandmother's bank account, but what about your core values? Can you give us a sense of what they are and maybe some incident in your life that helped determine them?
CA:是的，我当然不认为你偷了任何人的祖母的银行帐户，但你的核心价值呢？你能告诉我们他们是什么，也许是你生命中的某个事件帮助决定了他们吗？
JA: I'm not sure about the incident. But the core values: well, capable, generous men do not create victims; they nurture victims. And that's something from my father and something from other capable, generous men that have been in my life.
JA:我对这件事没有把握。但核心价值观：好的、能干的、慷慨的人不会创造受害者，而是培养受害者。这是我父亲和其他有能力、慷慨的人在我生命中所做的事情。
CA: Capable, generous men do not create victims; they nurture victims?
CA:有能力、慷慨的人不会创造受害者，他们会培养受害者？
JA: Yeah. And you know, I'm a combative person, so I'm not actually so big on the nurture, but some way there is another way of nurturing victims, which is to police perpetrators of crime. And so that is something that has been in my character for a long time.
JA:是的。你知道，我是一个好斗的人，所以我实际上并没有那么大的教养，但某种方式-有另一种方式培养受害者，这是警察犯罪的犯罪者。这是我长期以来的性格。
CA: So just tell us, very quickly in the last minute, the story: what happened in Iceland? You basically published something there, ran into trouble with a bank, then the news service there was injuncted from running the story. Instead, they publicized your side. That made you very high-profile in Iceland. What happened next?
CA:那么就告诉我们，在最后一分钟很快，故事：在冰岛发生了什么？你基本上在那里发表了一些东西，遇到了一家银行的麻烦，然后新闻服务就被禁止运行这个故事。相反，他们宣传你的一面。这使你在冰岛非常引人注目。接下来发生了什么？
JA: Yeah, this is a great case, you know. Iceland went through this financial crisis. It was the hardest hit of any country in the world. Its banking sector was 10 times the GDP of the rest of the economy. Anyway, so we release this report in July last year. And the national TV station was injuncted five minutes before it went on air, like out of a movie: injunction landed on the news desk, and the news reader was like, "This has never happened before. What do we do?" Well, we just show the website instead, for all that time, as a filler, and we became very famous in Iceland, went to Iceland and spoke about this issue. And there was a feeling in the community that that should never happen again, and as a result, working with Icelandic politicians and some other international legal experts, we put together a new sort of package of legislation for Iceland to sort of become an offshore haven for the free press, with the strongest journalistic protections in the world, with a new Nobel Prize for freedom of speech. Iceland's a Nordic country, so, like Norway, it's able to tap into the system. And just a month ago, this was passed by the Icelandic parliament unanimously.
JA:是的，这是一个很好的案例，你知道.冰岛经历了这次金融危机。这是世界上最受打击的国家。它的银行业是其他经济体GDP的10倍。无论如何，我们在去年7月发布了这份报告。而国家电视台在播出前五分钟就被禁止了，就像电影中的一幕：禁令落在了新闻台上，新闻播音员说：“这从来没有发生过。”我们怎么办？”嗯，我们只是在网站上显示，作为一个填充物，我们在冰岛变得非常有名，到冰岛去谈论这个问题。社会上有一种感觉，那就是永远不要再发生这种事情，结果是与冰岛政治家和其他一些国际法律专家合作，我们为冰岛制定了一个新的一揽子立法，使之成为自由新闻界的一个离岸避风港，拥有世界上最强大的新闻保护，拥有一个新的诺贝尔奖。泽为言论自由。冰岛是一个北欧国家，所以，像挪威一样，它能够进入这个系统。就在一个月前，冰岛议会一致通过了这项法案。
CA: Wow.
CA:哇。
(Applause)
（掌声）
Last question, Julian. When you think of the future then, do you think it's more likely to be Big Brother exerting more control, more secrecy, or us watching Big Brother, or it's just all to be played for either way?
最后一个问题，朱利安当你想到未来的时候，你认为更可能是大哥哥施加更多的控制，更多的保密，或我们看大哥哥，或是所有的都是为任何方式发挥？
JA: I'm not sure which way it's going to go. I mean, there's enormous pressures to harmonize freedom of speech legislation and transparency legislation around the world -- within the E.U., between China and the United States. Which way is it going to go? It's hard to see. That's why it's a very interesting time to be in- because with just a little bit of effort, we can shift it one way or the other.
JA:我不确定它会走哪条路.我的意思是，有巨大的压力来协调世界范围内的言论自由立法和透明立法——在欧盟内部，中美之间。走哪条路？很难看到。这就是为什么它是一个非常有趣的时间，因为只要有一点点的努力，我们可以改变它的方式或其他。
CA: Well, it looks like I'm reflecting the audience's opinion to say, Julian, be careful, and all power to you.
CA:嗯，看起来我是在反映观众的意见，朱利安，小心点，所有的力量都给你。
JA: Thank you, Chris. (CA: Thank you.)
谢谢你，克里斯。（CA:谢谢。）
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