论托斯卡尼尼丨热爱自由并勇于行动
Toscanini: His Love of Freedom and Courage to Act
托斯卡尼尼丨热爱自由并勇于行动
Interview with Harvey Sachs;
Martina Landi, Gariwo Editorial;
Translated by Carolina Figini
访哈维·萨克斯；玛蒂娜·兰迪，2016年1月14日
英译：卡罗利纳·菲希妮
On 22 January, at Auditorium Parco della Musica in Rome, a tree will dedicated to Arturo Toscanini "for his resistance against fascism and nazism and his aid to the persecuted Jewish musicians ". Reference is made to the musicians who were fired from the orchestras of the Third Reich because of the racist laws, whom Polish cellist Bronislaw Huberman with the help of Toscanini gathered in the Palestine Orchestra, which would debut under the direction of the Maestro in 1936.
2016年1月22日，在罗马的音乐公园音乐厅，将有一棵绿树被追赠给阿图罗·托斯卡尼尼，以此纪念他“对法西斯主义和纳粹主义的反抗，以及他对遭迫害的犹太音乐家的援助”。尤其相关的，是那些在“第三帝国”时期，因为种族主义法律而被迫离开管弦乐团的音乐家们。在托斯卡尼尼的帮助下，这些音乐家被波兰大提琴家布罗尼斯拉夫·胡贝尔曼召集，进入初创的巴勒斯坦管弦乐团。1936年，这一乐团由托斯卡尼尼执棒完成首演。
The same concert will be reproposed at the Auditorium Parco della Musica on 27 January, on Holocaust Memorial Day 2016.
今年，在1月27日的大屠杀纪念日里，这场音乐会将在音乐公园音乐厅的舞台上重现。
With Harvey Sachs, writer and music historian, biographer of Toscanini’s, we talked about these events, the Maestro’s antifascist commitment, his self-imposed exile in the US and his return to Italy to conduct the inaugural concert of La Scala in Milan, after the theatre was rebuilt from the debris of Allied bombings.
哈维·萨克斯 （Harvey Sachs）是一位作家和音乐史家，并且是托斯卡尼尼的传记作者。我们谈论了许多事情，例如这位指挥大师为反法西斯所做出的努力，他在美国度过的自我放逐时光，还有他回到意大利并指挥斯卡拉大剧院重建落成音乐会的事情（这座剧院曾被盟军的轰炸夷为平地）。
The artistic virtues of Arturo Toscanini are well-known. What is lesser known is perhaps his personality, a key to understanding also his civil commitment. What kind of a man was the Maestro, and what did he believe in?
问：托斯卡尼尼的艺术品质广为人知，他的个性品格却似乎不那么闻名。而后者，恰恰是了解他对人民事业之奉献的一面镜子。大师是怎样的一个人，他又坚信着什么呢？
Toscanini, born in 1867, was the son to a soldier in Garibaldi’s army, he was basically born an anti-monarchist and an anti-clerical, but he was also nationalistic, very proud of being a citizen of a reunited Italy. For him, fascism, first with the gradual abolition of individual liberties and then with the racist laws, was a shame for the homeland.
答：托斯卡尼尼生于1867年。作为一名加里波第军人的儿子，他由反独裁和反神权的土壤养育。但此外，他还拥抱民族主义思想；作为重获统一的意大利的一份子，他深感自豪。对他来说，法西斯步步蚕食着个人自由，挥动着种族法律的大棒，是他祖国故土上的耻辱。
By dedicating this tree to Toscanini at the Music Park of Rome we will remember first of all his commitment to the Palestine Orchestra set up by Bronislaw Huberman. Could you tell us about this episode and the concert of 1936?
问：借由这棵追赠给托斯卡尼尼的树，我们首先将回忆起他对巴勒斯坦管弦乐团的贡献。你能谈谈这段往事，以及1936年的音乐会吗？
In New York, in February 1936, Huberman talked with Toscanini about his plan to create an orchestra in Palestine with musicians who had escaped Germany, hoping that the Maestro would give him his moral support. Toscanini went beyond: he told him he would go personally to Palestine, without a reward and paying also the traveling costs for himself and his wife, to conduct the orchestra at its debut. His support persuaded many American Jews that the project also deserved funding: Albert Einstein himself, already exiled in America, wrote to Toscanini to thank him. Thus in December 1936 the Maestro and his wife caught a plane from Bari to Athens, from there to Alexandria of Egypt and Tel Aviv. The welcome was extraordnary, and from that experience Toscanini was strongly impressed and moved. He wanted to go to Palestine again and he did in Spring of 1938, always at his own cost, to conduct other concerts with the orchestra. He would certainly go there again and again if the war had not broken out in 1939.
答：在1936年2月的纽约，胡贝尔曼向托斯卡尼尼谈起了他的计划：在巴勒斯坦创建一个管弦乐团，以此吸纳那些逃离德国的音乐家们。胡贝尔曼向托斯卡尼尼寻求精神上的支持，而托斯卡尼尼显然给予得更多：他告诉胡贝尔曼，他将亲自前往巴勒斯坦指挥乐团的首演，不计报酬，并自付夫妻两人的差旅费。对于许多身在美国的犹太裔来说，大师的此般支持促使他们认为这一项目值得解囊相助；彼时已经流亡美国的阿尔伯特·爱因斯坦，还亲自写信给托斯卡尼尼表示感谢。1936年12月，大师携夫人登上了从巴里到雅典的飞机，途径亚历山大港，抵达特拉维夫。托斯卡尼尼受到非凡的礼遇，这段经历给他留下了强烈的印象和感动。指挥家再次造访巴勒斯坦的愿望在1938年春天实现：他指挥了乐团的其它一些音乐会，并且仍是自费。若是战争不在1939年爆发，他一定会一次又一次地去往那里。
Many intellectuals – and musicians – remained silent before and after Second World War. Toscanini instead used his prestige to launch a strong message, clashing several times with the fascist and nazist regimes. Could you describe this feature of Toscanini’s existence?
问：许多知识分子，包括音乐家，都在二战前后保持缄默。托斯卡尼尼则不同，他利用自己的名望发出了强音，数次和法西斯以及纳粹政权激烈交锋。你能说说托斯卡尼尼的这种处世特质吗？
In the first year since the March on Rome, Toscanini, although already opposing Mussolini – after granting him an initial support in 1919, when he had a programme that was more leftwing than the Socialist party -, hoped he would calm down. However, after Matteotti’s murder, the Aventino secession and the crackdown on the press, the Maestro took an overt stance against the regime. He refused to hang the king’s and Mussolini’s portraits in La Scala’s foyer, being its director since the Twenties, and also to play “Giovinezza” before the beginning of the operas. This is precisely why he was lappe by some young fascists in Bologna in 1931, after which he decided not to conduct anylonger in Italy until the regime and the monarchy would stay on power – he in fact thought that Vittorio Emanuele III was the main responsible for the dictatorship’s long life. In the same year, Toscanini became the first conductor not educated in Germany to conduct the wagnerian festival of Bayreuth, but after Hitler’s seizure of power in 1933 he would never more conduct in Germany. From 1935 and 1937, the Maestro was the main attraction of the Festival of Salzburg, but even before the Anschluss of 1938, when the Austrian chancellor struck a first deal with Germany, Toscanini announced he would not go back there again. In that very year, with other Jewish and anti-Nazist musicians, he instead created the Luzern Festival in Switzerland.
答：在1919年，托斯卡尼尼对墨索里尼是表示过最初支持的；当时的墨索里尼手握一份比社会党更“左”的计划。在“进军罗马”事件之后的一年里，托斯卡尼尼虽然已经开始反对墨索里尼，但仍希望他能冷静下来。然而，在马太奥蒂被谋杀，社会党撤出议会，以及媒体被镇压等系列事件之后，大师亮明了反对墨氏政权的立场。在其二十几岁就担任总监的斯卡拉大剧院，托斯卡尼尼拒绝在门厅悬挂国王和墨索里尼的画像，也拒绝在歌剧开演前加上一首Giovinezza。这正是托斯卡尼尼在1931年的博洛尼亚被一群年轻法西斯主义者围堵的原因；这次事件之后，大师决定只要这个独裁政权不倒台，他就绝不在意大利指挥。（实际上，托斯卡尼尼认为维克多·艾曼努尔三世需为这一独裁政权的长期存在负主要责任。）同年，托斯卡尼尼成为了首位没有在德国接受教育，却登上拜罗伊特瓦格纳音乐节的指挥家。然而，在1933年希特勒篡夺权利之后，托斯卡尼尼未再赴德指挥过。从1935年到1937年，大师堪称萨尔斯堡音乐节的金招牌，但当奥地利总理和德国签订首份交易时（这发生在1938年的德奥兼并之前），托斯卡尼尼宣布将永远不再回来。也正是在这一年，托斯卡尼尼与犹太及反纳粹音乐家们合力创办了瑞士琉森音乐节。
During the Thirties, Toscanini, who generally speaking did not like to be a “guest conductor”, often wielded his batons in countries such as France, Switzerland, Belgium, Czechoslowakya, Hungary, Denmark and Sweden, at the border with the Nazifascist countries, partly to scorn their dictators in the only way he could. From Autumn 1938, when Mussolini had his passport seized for criticizing the racist laws – his document would be given back to him upon international pressure -, Toscanini did not go back to Italy anymore, even on holidays, until 1946.
虽然常说自己不愿做“客席指挥”，但三十几岁的托斯卡尼尼时不时地出现在法国、瑞士、比利时、捷克斯洛伐克、匈牙利、丹麦和瑞典等国家；他对纳粹法西斯独裁者们进行嘲讽的唯一方法，就是在法西斯国家的边界上挥起指挥棒。1938年秋天，托斯卡尼尼因为批判种族主义法律，而被墨索里尼扣押了护照；此后直至1946年，甚至在节假日里，托斯卡尼尼也没有返回意大利，即使他的证件本可在国际压力下被奉还。
Did Toscanini keep faith to this commitment also during his “self-imposed” exile in the United States?
问：在所谓“自愿流落”于美国的时期里，托斯卡尼尼是否还在坚守着这份责任呢？
Toscanini and his wife morally and materially supported many Jewish, antifascist and anti-Nazi friends, helping them to reach the United States and settle down there; they also helped Friedelind Wagner, the composer’s antiNazi niece, to escape Europe and go live in New York. With his son Walter, the Maestro supported the Mazzini Society, which tried to influence the policy of the allied governments towards Italy, especially after Mussolini’s fall and the surrender of 8 September. According to Gaetano Salvemini, Toscanini set the example when it came to show the world’s public opinion that the word “Italy” was no synonym for “fascism”.
答：托斯卡尼尼夫妇从精神上和物质上支持了许多犹太裔、反法西斯和反纳粹的朋友，帮助他们进入美国并安顿下来。他们还帮助了瓦格纳的侄女、反法西斯主义者弗里德兰·瓦格纳，助其逃离欧洲并定居纽约。马志尼社团力图影响诸同盟国政府对意大利（尤其是墨索里尼倒台和1943年9月8日意大利宣布投降之后）的政策，托斯卡尼尼和儿子沃尔特一道支持过这一社团。在加埃塔诺·萨尔韦米尼看来，托斯卡尼尼给国际社会树立了一个典范，表明“意大利”不是“法西斯”的同义词。
In 1946, Toscanini was in Milan to conduct the inaugural concert of Teatro alla Scala, rebuilt after the bombings. What was the meaning of this gesture?
问：1946年，托斯卡尼尼在米兰指挥了从轰炸后重建起来的斯卡拉大剧院的落成音乐会。这种姿态的意义是什么？
It was a gesture of love towards the theatre he loved more than any other, and a sign of reconciliation towards his country. I also think for him it was the most moving moment in his career.
答：这表达了他对这座剧院无人能及的深爱，并且，这是一个与祖国和解的信号。我还认为，这是他生涯中最为动人的时刻。
On 27 January we will perform again the concert of Palestine Orchestra conducted by Toscanini in 1936. What is in your opinion the force of this initiative?
问：我们将在1月27日复现那场在1936年由托斯卡尼尼指挥的巴勒斯坦管弦乐团音乐会。你认为这一计划蕴含怎样的力量？
I believe this is a way to remember a man who not only loved freedom, but also had the courage to act. As he told Huberman, “It is the duty of each of us to do whatever possible in this struggle, each according to his own capabilities”.
A:我相信这是一种纪念方式，纪念一位不仅深爱自由，而且有勇气付诸行动的人物。正如他对胡贝尔曼所言：“每个人都应在这斗争的漩涡中，以己之长，尽力而为”。
Toscanini will thus also be remembered as a Righteous. But what does it mean to be “Righteous” today in your opinion?
问：因此，托斯卡尼尼将以正义者的身份被铭记，那么在你看来，就当下来说，什么才是胸怀正义？
Like yesterday, being a Righteous means keeping faith to one’s freedom of thought and doing the best we can again any kind of dogmatism and absolutism.
答：和过去一样：恪守正义，意味着对个人思想自由报以信念，并竭尽所能地向任何形式的教条主义与专制主义发起抗争。