席夫访谈丨“我们必须努力向公众解释如何聆听美妙的音乐。”
SFist Interviews András Schiff
SFist网站采访安德拉斯·席夫
SFist是一家介绍美国旧金山新闻，美食，艺术和活动的生活网站；往期主题：席夫丨为何我的《哥德堡变奏曲》宛如与魔鬼跳舞？我们今天推送的德彪西主题：1、德彪西百年，来听他的编号100的作品《版画集》（Estampes，L.100）；2、德彪西丨“古典诗歌有自己的生命。” 3、史蒂文·米尔豪瑟丨《月光》；4、德彪西的音乐风格及其成因丨“我希望我能证明自贝多芬之后，交响曲形式的音乐是多么空调乏味。” 5、为何德彪西喜欢猫？6、“我要在文学无能为力的地方开始音乐”丨德彪西为何创作《大海》？ 7、听德彪西如何把“光”写进音乐；8、德彪西音乐风格导论丨从调性、音色、旋律角度看；9、午觉是一种甜美的死，睡者在半醒的状态体味他的消亡的快乐丨伯恩斯坦指挥德彪西《牧神午后前奏曲》；10、“要找个懂德彪西的男人。” 11、丰子恺当年竟如此了解德彪西；12、德彪西让我知道，有些心事，只能用音乐说
Someone told us a story of a famous pianist who believed in bringing culture to the people, and went to a factory in Italy to give a lecture in front of a piano. He started to talk about Schoenberg, and after a few minutes, a voice rose from the audience: "Shut up, and play!" Ok, he said, and sat down at the piano, playing the Schoenberg piece. The voice rose again: "Rather, talk!"
有人曾给我们讲过一位著名钢琴家的故事，这位钢琴家相信要把文化带给人们，然后他去意大利的一家工厂并在钢琴前演讲。他从勋伯格开始讲起，几分钟后，听众中有恩说：“闭嘴，弹琴！”。好吧，他说，然后他坐在钢琴前弹奏勋伯格的曲子。人们又说：“不如还是讲吧！”
András Schiff, the Hungarian-born British Grammy winning piano virtuoso was telling the anecdote during a lecture series in London where he was talking --and playing-- about Beethoven's piano sonatas. Had we been sitting at the lecture, rather than streaming it on the internet, we'd have the opposite conundrum: talk! play! We could no choose, but we'd enjoy either. The guy has a great, slightly dry sense of humor, he knows Beethoven in and out, both from a scholarly or a musical point of view, and he can flat out play.
安德拉斯·席夫（Andras Schiff），出生于匈牙利，获得过英国格莱美奖的钢琴演奏家，曾在伦敦的一个系列讲座中讲述贝多芬的钢琴奏鸣曲。假如我们亲身出席这次讲座，而不是在互联网上观看直播，我们将会遇到一个相反的难题：讲！弹奏！我们别无选择，但我们对两者都很享受。这家伙有一种很好的、稍显枯燥的幽默感，他从学术或音乐的角度都充分了解贝多芬的作品，并且可以尽情发挥。
The Beethoven piano sonatas: you've heard them many times. The Moonlight sonata is one of these assignments that piano pupils take on too early and butcher too eagerly. Schiff, he is no butcher, and he is going to show us how it's done. He's playing an eight concert cycle of the 32 sonatas, in chronological order, a musical marathon of sort. The first two concerts are this month, Sunday Oct. 7th and 14th, co-presented by SF Performances and the SF Symphony (there are two more concerts in April, and the rest next season). That's a pretty exciting event, so we jumped on the opportunity to email some questions.
贝多芬的钢琴奏鸣曲:你应该已经多次聆听了。《月光奏鸣曲》是钢琴学生们过早地接受和急于求成的作品之一。希夫，他不是屠夫，他会告诉我们该怎么做。他把（贝多芬的）32首奏鸣曲分成8场音乐会，按创作时间先后的顺序排列整套演奏，这是一场音乐马拉松。本月有前两场音乐会，10月7日和14日，由旧金山演出公司和旧金山交响乐团共同呈现（明年4月还会演出两场音乐会，下一季将会有更多的音乐会）。这是一个非常激动人心的事情，所以我们抓住这次机会向席夫提出一些问题。
SFist:We were listening to your lectures at Wigmore Hall, we only had time to go through Op2, 7, 10 and 13 so far. These are great lectures, and will improve our playing of the sonatas. At least we hope so. Are you going to have a similar discussion format in SF?
SFist:我们在伦敦Wigmore 音乐厅听了你的演讲，到目前为止我们只有时间听完Op2、7、10和13这几首。这些都是很棒的讲座，会提升我们演奏这些奏鸣曲的水平。至少我们希望如此。在旧金山你会有类似的讨论形式吗?
András I am glad You enjoyed the Wigmore lectures, thank you very much indeed. There won't be anything like that in San Francisco, at least not now. I feel that the crisis in classical music - if there is such a thing - is a matter of quality and understanding. There is no shortage in the number of concerts that are being presented to the public, nor is there a lack of audience attendance. The problem is that audiences are less and less knowledgeable. This is a question of education, schools do very little about this, families are busy with other things, there is less home music-making. In such a cultural climate we have to make an effort to explain to the public how to listen to great music. Of course, many of them already know this, but to the majority this is necessary and welcome. After the Wigmore Hall lectures, there were no questions from the audience. But usually, I'm happy to answer them.
席夫：我很高兴你们听了在Wigmore 音乐厅的讲座，真是非常感谢。旧金山不会有类似的情况，至少现在不会。我觉得古典音乐的危机——如果有的话——是质量和理解的问题。目前向公众展示的音乐会数量并不短缺，也不存在缺少观众的情况。问题是观众的古典音乐知识越来越贫乏。这是一个教育问题，学校这方面做得很少，家庭忙于其他事情，家庭创作的音乐在减少。在这样的文化氛围中，我们必须努力向公众解释如何聆听美妙的音乐。当然，他们中的很多人早已知晓这一点，但对大多数人来说，这是必要的并且受欢迎的。在Wigmore 音乐厅演讲之后，听众没有向我提出任何问题。但通常，我很乐于回答他们的问题。
SFist:And you're playing the whole sonata cycle, right? Because you couldn't choose your favorite?
SFist:你按整套方式演奏贝多芬的全部钢琴奏鸣曲，对吧？因为你无法选出你最喜欢的?
András The Beethoven sonatas beg to be played as a cycle. 32 masterpieces, not one weak link among them, they form a logical sequence, a line of evolution. Beethoven was a great pianist himself and he wrote many of these pieces for his own use. They show his development as a composer over a period of almost thirty years, like no other genre does.
席夫：贝多芬的钢琴奏鸣曲希望被整套演奏。32首杰作，它们之中没有一个薄弱环节，它们形成了一个逻辑序列，一条不断进化的线索。贝多芬本人是一位伟大的钢琴家，他为自己的演奏创作这些作品。这些奏鸣曲在将近30年的时间里展示了他作为作曲家的发展脉络，就像其他流派一样。
SFist:The last performer we heard in the entire Beethoven sonatas was Alfred Brendel in Paris in the 90s. You mention him in your first Op 2 lecture. Is your take similar to his?
SFist:我们听到的演奏整套贝多芬奏鸣曲的最后一位演奏家是90年代在巴黎的阿尔弗雷德·布伦德尔（Alfred Brendel）。你在第一堂课上提到他。你的想法和他的相似吗?
András I have a great respect for Mr. Brendel, a marvelous artist, an important interpreter of Beethoven. However, I doubt it that my approach would be similar to his. We all try to understand what the composer wanted through the score. Still, each and every performance is entirely different, and thank God for that. How boring it would be if it were otherwise?
席夫：我非常尊敬布伦德尔先生，他是一位了不起的艺术家，是贝多芬的一位重要的演绎者。然而，我怀疑我的方法与他有所相似。我们都试图通过乐谱了解作曲家想要什么。尽管如此，每个人、每场表演都是完全不同的，感谢上帝。如果不是这样，会多么无聊?
SFist:You mostly went to the source: to the original manuscripts, to the first editions, to the testimonies of Beethoven contemporaries. Did you have to go to research far and wide, or was it all done in Vienna? How much of it is scholarly work, as opposed to performing music?
SFist:你主要去搜寻资料：原始的手稿、首版，直到贝多芬同时代人的佐证。你必须去广泛研究，还是完全在维也纳完成？这其中有多少是学术著作，而不是演奏的音乐?
András Many manuscripts are in Vienna, but not all. Most are at the Beethoven-Haus in Bonn, Germany, where he was born. And Berlin is also a very important city. The sonata Op. 109 is at the Library of Congress in Washington D.C.To me, it is extremely important to go back to the sources and learn as much about the background as possible. But we must find the right balance between knowledge and instinct. Instinct and inspiration must dominate but knowledge doesn't hurt either.
席夫：许多手稿存放于维也纳，但并非全部。有很多保存在德国波恩的贝多芬故居，他出生在那里。同时，柏林也是一个非常重要的城市。《贝多芬E大调第三十号钢琴奏鸣曲》（Beethoven: Piano Sonata No.30, Op.109）就收藏于华盛顿的国会图书馆。对我来说，回到源头，尽可能多地了解背景知识是非常重要的。但我们必须在知识和本能之间找到正确的平衡。本能和灵感必须占主导地位，但知识不会对两者造成伤害。
SFist:The other event during the weekend you come to SF is the premiere of Philip Glass' opera Appomattox at the SF Opera. We’re so there! Is his work your cup of camomille?
SFist: 你来到旧金山，周末的另一场活动是菲利普·格拉斯的歌剧《阿波马托克斯》（《Appomattox》）在旧金山剧院的首映式。我们也在那!他的作品是你的菜吗?
András I must confess that my interest in minimal music is MINIMAL. Mr. Glass's music seems to appeal to a lot of people, but I don't have an antenna for it. It must be my fault, sorry.
席夫：我必须承认，我对简约音乐（也可以翻译成极简主义音乐）的兴趣微乎其微。格拉斯先生（注：菲利普·格拉斯）的音乐似乎吸引了很多人，但我没有感觉。那一定是我的错，对不起。
SFist: Obviously, Beethoven is never out of date, but do you explore the contemporary music repertoire? Would you compose? Would you lecture on Philip Glass the way you did on Beethoven? That would sure help us.
SFist:很明显，贝多芬永远不会过时，但是你会探索当代的音乐曲目吗?你会作曲吗?你会像讲解贝多芬一样讲解菲利普·格拉斯（Philip Glass）的音乐吗?这确实对我们很有帮助。
András I would be glad to compose, but unfortunately, something essential is missing from me, namely talent. I do play contemporary music but not as much as I should or would like to, but I have to be realistic. No one can do everything well. If I played all of Bach, Haydn, Mozart, Beethoven, Schubert, Schumann and others - most of it from memory - then I can't do everything else. Also, the modern repertory requires such a radically different pianistic approach; it's virtually impossible to require the same pianist to feel at home in both worlds.
I couldn't lecture on Philip Glass; I simply don't understand it.
席夫：我很乐意去作曲，但不幸的是，我缺少一些重要的东西，即天赋。我的确演奏当代音乐，但没有我应该或想要的那样多，但我必须要现实一些。没有人能把每件事都做好。如果我演奏巴赫、海顿、莫扎特、贝多芬、舒伯特、舒曼等人的作品——大部分来自记忆——那么我就不能做其他的事了。同时，现代的曲目也需要一种截然不同的钢琴风格；几乎不可能要求同一个钢琴家在两个世界里都有归属感。
我不能讲解菲利普·格拉斯的音乐；我一点儿也不了解。
SFist:You are also releasing the Beethoven sonata cycle as a CD sets? How many did you record already?
SFist: 你也会发行贝多芬钢琴奏鸣曲全集的CD套装吗？你已经录制了多少?
András Five volumes of my recordings have been released but the others have also been recorded, in concerts. Live from the Tonhalle in Zurich, Switzerland.
席夫：已经发行了我的五卷录音，但其他的也都在音乐会中录制了。瑞士苏黎世音乐厅（Tonhalle）的现场。
SFist:Seeing as how you will be in SF for the duration of the cycle, have you figured out your favorite hangouts in the city yet?
SFist:考虑到在旧金山这次整套奏鸣曲循环演出期间你将会怎样，在你是否已经找到了这座城市中你最喜欢的地方?
András San Francisco has always been my very favorite American city. It's very beautiful. I love the topography, the hills, the valleys, and the fact that one can walk here - something one can't do in most American cities. I don't even know how to drive, so the freedom to walk is critical for me.
席夫：旧金山一直是我很喜欢的美国城市。它非常漂亮。我喜欢这里的地形、山冈、山谷，人可以在这里步行——在美国的大多数城市里，人们都无法做到这一点。我甚至不知道如何开车，所以走路的自由对我来说很重要。